That is not really the first thread I wanted to post on this forum (I had more in mind an 'I am doing it' kind of subject with progress and experience along the way) but I am having doubts.

As of 2 hours ago everything was fine but a contractor but some touble in my mind. So here is a little bit of history :

I am doing some 'enhancement' in my house which is a split level. The renovation is enough for the main level (living room, Dining room, Guest room, bathroom) to be completely stripped down on the basement side  (meaning I have access to the sub-floor from the basement).

And that's where all it started. Don't get me wrong, it is economical from the standpoint that I am spending way too much on oil. So, when I started the renovation I looked at more efficient way to heat this area. And I came up with radiant heat flooring.

It looked really like the best solution moreover knowing that I came from Europe and that my parents that still live there have a house twice as big as mine and are using almost half of the oil that I am spending with a 15 years old (at least) radiant system (keeping in mind that the entire tubing is under concrete slab).

So I did my due diligence and started to scale what it would take to put part of the house on a radiant floor heating system. Now don't get me wrong it is not cheap (with good components) but I am guessing that I could save about 20% in heating cost which would lead to an ROI in 3-4 years and add resell value to the house knowing that more and more people are concerned about operating cost.

As said above I was all set and ready to place my order for the different components within a week. I was going with :

Joist Track
Taco RMB-1 Radiant mixing block with outdoor reset
Zone 1 : 1 mainfold 5 loop (1 to 3 for living/dining room area, 4 for kitchen, 5 for bathroom)
Zone 2 : manifold '1' loop for the bedroom
Pex-A tubing
Zone valve for each manifold
Zone valve controller

Floor is hardwood with the exception of the bathroom.

Both radiant floor heating and baseboard heating (for the 'other' side of the house) will work out of the boiler knowing that the baseboard will have it's own zone valve (which is the case actually) directly from the boiler supply (vs mixing for floor radiant). In the future shall I redo the 'other' side of the house (2 bedroom + 1 bathroom) I would have probably switch to radiant floor as well.

So here is, I am ready for this, convinced that it is the right decision from an efficiency perspective (read $ operating cost) and then an HVAC contractor came to my house as I wanted to get his opinion on the system and told that I wouldn't save money compare to my 'regaular' baseboard heating. His point is that you gain on one side but the counterparty is that there is lot more water to heat in a radiant floor therefore I wouldn'd save that much.

That's when he told me about Hydro-Air and said that it would be my best $ saving moreover knowing that I could run the AC thru it (I currently don't have central air but yes thinking about it in the near term). In this configuration, duct will be done thru the ceiling.
Note that the contractor knows that in either configuration I will do the work by myself so his interest (meaning getting a contract) is limited.

So now I need to have an honest opinion on that. I would have no doubt that radiant is more comfortable than Hydro-air (wich a form of forced air but I really want to focus on operating cost for now. Would hydro-air be cheaper just for heating purpose ? (let's keep the AC outside of the equation for now)
I was ready to spend my money on good quality components for the radiant floor (FYI I live in CT) but as everybody money doesn't grow in my garden so I can't afford making a mistake ... and I need a heating system asap now ....

Thanks,

Geoff.


Note : floor plan + floor radiant loop attached ...

first, you don't want any single runs in a joist bay, ever. makes the install way harder. looks like you are skipping your tub area as well and you shouldn't.

hydro air will not operate more efficiently than radiant. but if you need payback to justify radiant, you are barking up the wrong tree. you will likely never pay back the difference in hydro air vs radiant.

Rob,

Thanks for your reply.
the single run in the joist bay are due to the fact that the joist are apart 8'' in these area or less so in that case how should I do.
For the tub you are right I was skipping it -> will not do anymore ... I am also skipping the toilet (which I know I should) as well as the sink area (good/bad ?)

Regarding the hydro-air vs radiant what I am really trying to guess right now is 'operating cost'
I have 3 choices :
- Stay with radiant baseboard -> I know it cost me per month already. In addition it take space on the wall and therefore limit placement of furniture, etc ...
- Put radiant floor
- Hydro Air

How would you rank the 3 options (assuming that all of them are done right) in terms of monthly bill?

I have no idea how much a hydro-air system installation will cost comparing apple to apple (meaning I do the install) with radiant floor. I know that I will spend 4 to 5K in material (tube, control, transfer plates, insulation ...) to do the radiant heat floor.
Yes there are other things that I will take into consideration other than ROI. I have never been a big fan of force air system and even if Hydro-air seems to be more comfortable and less dry the comfort of radiant is much better. In addition it doesn't seem that hydro air have the flexibility of zoning that radiant heat offers (it has some but on a more larger scale from what I understood).

But I see value on hydro air like it looks more flexible if I do extension in the house one day as well the capacity to run heating and cooling from that same system.

Last point is resell value. What I am better of with ?

Geoff.

Geoff, My limited understanding of HVAC systems is that switching to radiant will not drop your oil bill at all. The only way to decrease your oil costs are either a more efficient boiler or a geothermal unit and/or better insulation/less infiltration). Whether the heat is radiated from baseboards or from the whole floor has little to do with operating costs. It's all in how you generate the heat (boiler/geo) and how you keep it in (insulation and infiltration). How you distribute it is minor.

There is considerable evidence that radiant floor heating WILL lower the heat load and thus cost of operation: conservatively 10% depending on the application. As baseboard is normally sized for economy i.e. higher design water temperatures, it is generally considered the cheapest to install and the most expensive to operate. It should be noted that fin tube baseboard "radiation" is not true radiation at all failing to qualify as less than 50% of the energy emitted by fin tube is radiant energy.

Greg is right on the main focus which would be to install a ModCon boiler! hehehee

I know I'm bad, and I don't even make them anymore!

That's what I thought. There is a lot of literature out there and the general consensus is that radiant floor is cheaper to operate than baseboard. Even if it is 10% it is not nothing.
Regarding my boiler is brand new it is a Peerless and it is energy star rating so I think I am all set on this aspect. FYI We bought our house a year ago but during our inspection, the inspector told us that we had one of the best boiler available.

But as I am doing the 'update' (if I can call that an update) I also budgeted some money on the insulation as I know that is really a critical aspect. For now I will do an R50 (vs R19 max ... yes I know that is bad ...) ceiling insulation and the bedroom + bathroom will get an R19 on the exterior wall. The bedroom will get also a new window.

But anyway to get back to my original question, the more I think about it the more I am leaning toward staying with radiant floor.
- I have already 'study' the radiant floor heating system
- if I do the radiant floor, I'll do it myself and I am comfortable with that.
- I would probably need someone to help me size the hydro-air / or spend some more time to do proper study about installation which right now I am running out of time and budget is not extensible (I am guessing that if I ask a pro to do the hydro air, at the end the cost will be the same as if I do the radiant floor myself)
- I grew up with radiant floor and I know what I am getting in terms of comfort.

I'll keep you posted,

Geoff.