Baseboard hydronic + indirect DWH?
Last Post 10 Feb 2009 10:47 AM by NRT.Rob. 10 Replies.
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richntiffUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2009 12:53 PM
Just curious, I know radiant heating is all the rage here - but I'm curious about baseboard hydronic.  I know either way I go, I want to couple it to a mod-con boiler and indirect tank for DHW.  I'm not overly experienced on HVAC in general - and radiant type stuff especially.  Can someone provide some insight, or a link, etc. as to the applicability of this?  I realize baseboard has to run higher water temps than radiant floor, which would lead to having a  mixing valve to temper the DHW.  Is baseboard that much less efficient than radiant floor?  I'm building either a SIP or ICF home that should have a total heat load in the 22-29k BTU range.  2300 sf single story ranch. 
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2009 04:35 PM
Modcons usually more efficient with radiant floors than with baseboard because they operate at lower temperature vs. output. As most fin-tube baseboard is rated and designed for 180F average water temperature, the ModCon will Con less.

You will have a "free" radiator in the slab so throw in some tube and your all set.

A little design help is a wise investment.
MA
www.badgerboilerservice.com
Dana1User is Online
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09 Feb 2009 05:21 PM
All kidding aside, baseboard doesn't need to run higher than radiant floors so long as you have ENOUGH of it. Many fin-tube baseboards these days have specs on what they'll deliver per running foot at multple temps, 140F, 160F, 180F, 200F etc., but some nowdays take the guesswork (aka "interpolating math" :-) ) out of it and just out & out tell you what it'll deliver at 110F, 120F, 130F as well, eg:

http://www.slantfin.com/documents/327.pdf

Note that it takes roughly twice as many running feet of baseboard to deliver the heat at 130F that you'd need at 180F, but it'll deliver. In homes/rooms with high heat-load you may run out of free wall-length, but you CAN deliver the heat with baseboard at radiant-type water temps, and it's (relatively) cheap. But it doesn't deliver quite the same "cruisin' in yer socks" creature comfort appeal as heat delivered in a radiant floor. Radiant can provide the same creature comfort at a somewhat lower air temp, so there is some subtle fuel savings to be had there too.

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09 Feb 2009 05:54 PM
Fin-tube is a poor substitute. Taking up wall space and getting dirty, beat up etc. I am an advocate for ModCons on fin-tube "so long as you have ENOUGH" but I wouldn't consider it if I had a nearly perfect emitter (like a radiant slab) available.
MA
www.badgerboilerservice.com
richntiffUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2009 06:54 PM
Thanks - basically what I was assuming. I would obviously prefer to go radiant floor over baseboard - but am concerned over my flooring choices and their compatibility with radiant floor. I know in theory 3/4" hardwood 'can' work, but I'm not convinced - esp. since I'm looking at maple. Also, wife likes carpet, and I can't talk here out of some carpet. Not fond of the idea of putting rubber pad underneath it just to achieve a marginal heat transfer.

BadgerBoiler - I will end up getting some design assistance for sure. I'm designing every other aspect of the house and mechanicals myself, but beyond calcing my heat load, I'll be getting the advice of an experienced pro for the radiant or forced air system.
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09 Feb 2009 07:16 PM
Floor coverings are an aspect of design. I have 180F under my 90 yr. old maple without problems. Carpet and pad can be overcome also. Slightly higher design temps will be needed but rarely more than fintube even if you have enough...
MA
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EastMarkUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2009 10:09 PM
Not sure your climate but radiant heat isnt always the best choice in my case here in a very cold climate in Maine.
I want to use a wood stove off and on all winter for atmosphere and a secondary heat source and it would really mess with the slow response times that come from radiant. Burn a stove for 8 hours at zero outside...have it go out.... and see how long it takes radiant to catch up. Too long. Not to mention the first hour or so of wood burning the floor is off but still throwing residual heat so you will likely have to open a window.
Just a thought. It aint as perfect as many claim if you want a second source. Baseboard is fast,effecient, and only dirty if you dont clean it.
I do like the feel of radiant when used solo but am not using it on my new home due to the wood stove.
Mark
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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10 Feb 2009 06:27 AM
Clean a lot of baseboard do you?

Valid points otherwise. Euro-panels are easily cleaned, low-mass and responsive. They are true radiators and more comfortable. Fin-tube is for folks who can't afford radiant heat.

Professional design I say.
MA
www.badgerboilerservice.com
EastMarkUser is Offline
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10 Feb 2009 08:55 AM
Vacuum the baseboard once a year actually. About 2 minutes each strip.
I plan my time accordingly throughout the year to accumulate appropriate time each April to do it.

""Valid points otherwise.""

Thanks for your blessing on another point of view.

""Fin-tube is for folks who can't afford radiant heat.""

Wow. It embarrasing to me that you dont see the problem with that remark.

Mark

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10 Feb 2009 09:20 AM
You're welcome.
MA
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NRT.RobUser is Offline
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10 Feb 2009 10:47 AM
naming response time as a problem because of a wood stove is, quite simply, a design issue. it doesn't have to be that way. In a proper design, it isn't that way at all. floor sensing helps, responsive water temperatures, low mass emitters... there are plenty of ways to skin the cat.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com
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