Is whole house radiant floor heating effective in the real world?
Last Post 31 Mar 2014 11:39 AM by BadgerBoilerMN. 33 Replies.
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ICFHybridUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2014 12:57 PM
I just took an impromptu nap on my kitchen floor. It was 35F outdoors last night and 42F this morning. The inside temp was 67F and the kitchen floor surface was 71F-72F. It appeared the radiant was on at the time and water is going out at 84F. The tile floor felt slightly cool to the touch at first, but after lying there about 15 min, I noticed it was pretty darn neutral - neither warm nor cool.

We had about 8/10 cloud cover this morning, but the sun did pass over the sunroom a few times very briefly. The interior temp there was 68F and the tile floor temp was 78F, with the radiant off.

Hope this helps with figuring out what is comfy.
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17 Mar 2014 02:44 PM
Well Dan, please tell your buddy to play nice and all will be well around here.  We don't operate in MN, so we don't compete with him or really even care what he does there.  What we do care about is folks creating problems that cause the HR industry to get a bad name.  We really should all care about that.

Right ICF, low 70s for the floor surface temp seems quite comfy to us as well and also maximizes HR floor heating system efficiency (i.e., requires lower supply temp). There is no problem designing for a higher HR floor temp if that is desired in lieu of obtaining maximum HR floor heating system efficiency...but this is a GREEN building forum after all...  One should still keep in mind that 85F is considered the upper limit for comfy bare foot floors, so that should be considered too. The problem I alluded to was under-estimating the HR floor emitter area (because the proper unblocked area was not used for the HR design) and then having to actually operate the HR floor temp at a significantly higher temp than would have been necessary to get the required heat gain into the zone at maximum heating efficiency…and perhaps also resulting in a HR floor temp even higher than 85F.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
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17 Mar 2014 03:26 PM
I don't think the original poster is still here, nothing since jan 20th.

Mostly I am a reader here and I am tired of it. Doesn't show professionalism to me.

But in case he is...
pb,
I have radiant in my basement slab, I only keep room air temp heated to 65*F. I am in Rhode Island and I just shut it off for the season. I didn't realize how warm the cement was until now. With it off for a week and still having some cold nights, the room temp has dropped to 62*F but the floor FEELS cold now.

Did the floor feel warm when it was on? I didn't really think so.

Chris

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17 Mar 2014 08:45 PM
Chris and Dan - could not have said it better myself!
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17 Mar 2014 10:41 PM
Exactly right Chris, the last OP post was on 20 Jan and then a gibberish power post on 15 March. You have to have a group of professionals to experience professionalism. This forum has always exhibited more cronyism than professionalism in the three years we have participated. Since this forum doesn't have any moderators to police it, the forum participants have had to police it themselves. This can and has led to ugliness. I think the forum owners have to decide what kind of forum they really want to foster…a good ole boy self-promotion marketing forum or a factual green building knowledge forum. The professionals are tired of this ugliness too.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
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18 Mar 2014 09:47 AM
the forum participants have had to police it themselves. This can and has led to ugliness.
I would say the self-policing here is fairly successful. This site has always been pretty well goal-oriented and relatively free of the ugliness you see most other places.
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18 Mar 2014 11:14 AM
I would have to somewhat disagree with you ICF. Perhaps the policing here is better than some construction forums, but the policing here is far worse than every professional forum we have participated. For example, look how badly this post was derailed...  Granted, most construction forums are openly and expressly for contractors (usually dealing with how to maximize profit) and often openly anti-DIY too. Here are some forum rules stolen from a Micro Cogeneration forum we participate. Please keep in mind that this forum is by invitation only, so the level of professionalism is higher than most forums, although folks still need to be corralled on this forum on occasion too.

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1) Try to be helpful when you can.

2) Try to keep on topic with your comments.

3) Try not to be argumentative.

4) Treat others as you would like to be treated.

5) Don't take credit for other’s work or ideas.

6) Protect other’s work or ideas.

7) Try to make this forum a place to learn.

8) Teach what you are qualified to teach.

9) Share your experiences.

10) If you must "vent" do so in the "octagon". It was setup specifically for all of us to be able to “vent” without derailing a topic.

11) No "overunity" discussion. Overunity is an affront to the laws of physics, therefore discussion of "anything" related directly to the topic of overunity will be "DELETED". There are ample places on the net to discuss this topic to ones content, this forum is not one of them.

We don't feel it necessary to stifle the membership with tons of do's and do not's. Most everyone here will be adults and as such have a pretty good idea of what is proper etiquette and what is not.

Should a question arise, let it be known there will be no hesitation in handling it in a timely manner.

Crude, rude, and otherwise nasty behavior will not be tolerated, a warning or two and "banning" will be the result of those actions.

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Likely 11) could be deleted as this isn’t an issue for a construction forum, however, it should be stated that any statements made by a poster should still be supported by scientific principals and construction best practices, and not by statements like “You are a newbie”, “My grandfather and I have done it this way for 50 years and all my projects are great, each and every one”, and other rubbish. As such, I am also not convinced everyone here knows what basic proper etiquette is, so perhaps this should be expanded to include such things as no discussion about politics, religion, no cronyism and gang bullying of participants, etc. One other item that I would advocate adding is that folks who carry on like they are sub-contractors or general contractors, should have to include their company name so this can be Googled to gauge their creditability and character. We have some folks who hang out here with very high post counts who carry on this way and I am not convinced that they could get a job at Home Depot, much less actually be a licensed and practicing sub-contractor or general contractor.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2014 11:33 AM
Posted By ICFHybrid on 17 Mar 2014 12:57 PM
I just took an impromptu nap on my kitchen floor. It was 35F outdoors last night and 42F this morning. The inside temp was 67F and the kitchen floor surface was 71F-72F. It appeared the radiant was on at the time and water is going out at 84F. The tile floor felt slightly cool to the touch at first, but after lying there about 15 min, I noticed it was pretty darn neutral - neither warm nor cool.

We had about 8/10 cloud cover this morning, but the sun did pass over the sunroom a few times very briefly. The interior temp there was 68F and the tile floor temp was 78F, with the radiant off.

Hope this helps with figuring out what is comfy.


Now you're just showing off ;-). Most floors without the benefit of radiant heat will be a steady 66°F or so, cold by any standard. I would nap on your floor any day.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
Blueridgecompany.comUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2014 11:37 AM
Perhaps GBT could create a Block field/option so we bloggers could chose to not see post from all the non worthy, un-faithful, poorly aligned, cretins.
A reasonable improvement?
Dan
Dan <br>BlueRidgeCompany.com
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18 Mar 2014 12:26 PM
sailawayrb - while you're experienced, knowledegable and I enjoy reading your contributions, you are also very guilty of (3). I think you seek to police the forum by calling out what you see as bad advice or sometimes a bad source for information. This only devolves into the unprofessional name calling. I'd leave it to the forum readers to discount bad advice or a bad advisor and keep the forum focused on content. If one reads this forum long enough even a lay person can smell when BS is being shoveled and we'll ignore the stink (not that you stink, but some advice posted in the forum by others will at times).
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18 Mar 2014 01:41 PM
For example, look how badly this post was derailed...
That usually doesn't worry me too much. If OP's feel their thread is getting lost in the clutter, they always have the option to come back and reiterate their premise. I can't think of any times that has been unsuccessful for someone. In many cases, they thank members for the wide variety of responses that they hadn't thought of.

Similarly, I'm not too impressed with threads that have a clear agenda, usually commercial. If you have noticed, outside spamming efforts get dealt with pretty quickly and "inside" spamming gets dealt with by regular members through discussion. There are people who take every opportunity to promote the fine items and services that they just happen to sell, but nothing is perfect and they run the risk of having the dirty laundry aired out at the same time.

Truly bad and disruptive actors are a real problem for websites, because it is very difficult to prevent them from simply re-upping. Since they crave attention, the best thing is just to let them wear out their welcome, although I know how satisfying it can be to see someone you don't like get "banned". ;-)
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18 Mar 2014 01:54 PM
Ergnut - Yes, we would agree that we can get argumentative at times. That can be a challenge at times when you feel knowledgeable and passionate about a subject. We never throw the first stone, but we get drawn into stone fights too often. Your advice is appreciated and we shall try to do better.

ICF – You perception is similar to our perception. I suppose it is better left to the reader to decide on the merits of each response and not spend too much effort trying to weed this garden.
Borst Engineering & Construction LLC - Competence, Integrity and Professionalism are integral to all that we do!
jonrUser is Offline
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31 Mar 2014 10:22 AM
Most floors without the benefit of radiant heat will be a steady 66°F or so, cold by any standard.
My non radiant floor (with carpet and over conditioned space) is right at 72F in a 72F room. Warmer where I routed some hot air supply ducts underneath (near zero cost radiant!). On the other hand, radiant floor heat in the basement slab would be nice (although I don't spend much time there).
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31 Mar 2014 11:39 AM
I am a homeowner with radiant floor heating.

The answer is, each home is different. Someone has to do a room-by-room heat load to qualify the "warm floor" state. Mine is a well insulated retrofit and the floors are warm to the touch when it is cold outside. I have mine bathroom floor on most of the year in the walkout.

When people say radiant floor don't get warm they are most always referring to Passive House heat loads. I have a colleague who made a living installing radiant floor in San Diego. "Comfort" is selective. The only people who don't want them are the people that don't have them.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
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