Hello, I'm new to the forum.  I'm Scott.  I wanted to pick peoples brains out there on a project I have in the planning phase.  I want to get as much info as I can from online as well as local hvac contractors.  So here we go...

House
ranch with 3/4 basement.  Electric service only, baseboard heaters each room, central a/c air handler in ceiling.  Chicago area

Basement has nothing in it.  I want to have one large living space and a full bath down there.  I am coming up with a million ways of heating and cooling the thing... from wood burners, to heat pumps, to getting new gas service installed, gas furnace, re-do whole house with gas furnace + acoil, electric furnace, boiler.....

This is the proposed plan I have so far.  Bear in mind I haven't done any manual j calculations yet.  I didn't even get the square footage yet! :)
I leave the upstairs heating cooling solution alone.  Simple.

I Install a new tankless electric water heater that supplys hot water to the new bath and via heat exchanger heats a closed loop that ties into a hydronic air handler.  Then the air handler has minimal ductwork to supply and return the main space and a short run into the bathroom.  The air handler has it's own acoil also so if I were to add a condensing unit outside I could cool the space.  But really i'm sure it would would benefit more from the removal of the humidity it would provide.  I was interested in this unit  http://www.comfort-aire.com/residential/11-air-handlers/12-ahgv-series-for-r-410a

I'm just not sure how conventional this setup is...  or if there are other more simple ways to do this?  I see they have electric furnaces.... I have no experience with them.  What do you guys think?  Thank you

You're heating on straight resistance heat in Chicago in a rancher? How much does that cost you per month?

I mentioned Chicago area so you guys know the climate, sorry house is in northwest Indiana. Its my parents place, they say 150 a month average through summer and 350 through the winter. House is 1500 square feet not including the basement of course

why not just use a couple of extra heaters in the basement. why re-invent the wheel?

As you indicated, you really first need to accomplish the heat loss analysis before you should start considering how to provide the heat gain. Then you should perform a financial ROI analysis that considers both the acquisition and operational cost of the viable heating system options given how long you expect to live in this place. As others have said, just selecting what seems like a cool technical solution without first acomplishing the heat and financial analysis is putting the cart before the horse.

Heat loads of basements tend to be pretty small, but can/should be made smaller with both air-sealing & insulation, if it isn't already insulated. An inch of EPS foam trapped against the concrete with a 24" o.c. interior-side studwall insulated with R15 rock wool batts (no vapor barrier,only air-tight wallboard and latex paint) would be the minimum amount that makes sense in your climate. The band joist & foundation sill is best sealed & insulated to the top of your wall-foam with an inch or two of closed cell polyurethane foam, with high-density rock wool to fatten out the R and provide a suitable thermal barrier for the foam for fire protection.) Put an inch of EPS under the bottom plate of the studs as a thermal & capillary break from the slab, through-screwing it to the slab with TapCons or similar.

Most insulated basements in IN (even walk-outs) could be heated with a pretty-good 3/4 ton or 1-ton mini-split, which may be cheaper than even the hook-up costs for tapping a gas main and trenching in the gas service to the house, and would cost about the same to operate as a gas-burner. It's certainly going to be cheaper to install than a tankless hot water heater and an oversized variable speed dual-coil hydronic + R410A refrigerant air handler, and it'll take up a lot less space too.

All wood burners are likely to be extreme overkill for a basement, and you would also have a code compliance issue of having to provide combustion air ducted in at a point no higher than the fire-box, which may be awkward or even impossible. There may be a pellet-stove solution that works in basements, but even the smallest pellet stoves out there are on the order of 15,000 BTU/hr, which may be more than 2x the heat load once you've insulated the place.

I appreciate the feedback thanks. I really like the idea of a minisplit system. I have no experience with them. I like the idea of its simplicity and ability to heat/cool 2 zones without ductwork. My main concern is how well will it work in my area with our cold winters? Any thoughts? I heard they have auxillary electric heaters in them to assist on those days (which there will be a lot of!)

Posted By 250ratc on 03 Mar 2014 05:40 PM
I appreciate the feedback thanks. I really like the idea of a minisplit system. I have no experience with them. I like the idea of its simplicity and ability to heat/cool 2 zones without ductwork. My main concern is how well will it work in my area with our cold winters? Any thoughts? I heard they have auxillary electric heaters in them to assist on those days (which there will be a lot of!)

Your climate is not nearly cold enough to be a problem for mini-splits designed for low temp operation.  Your 99% outside design temp is probably no colder than about 0F, and your 99.7% temperature bin is probably still north of -10F (though it probably got colder than that for a few hours out of this year.)

The Fujitsu Halcyon XLTH  series has a rated output capacity at -15F, and will operate even at -30F putting out an unspecified amount of heat.

The Mitsubishi H2is are have rated outputs a -13F and keeps running at lower temps (I have second hand reports of heating at -22F outdoor temps).  The standby go-to mini-splits in New England has been the popular Mitsubishi MSZ-FExxNA, but there is an updated MSZ-FHxxNA series with efficiency specifications that are considerably better.

For a basement with an open floor plan it's likely that a single-head 3/4 ton is the right choice, and would likely come in under 3 grand as  turn-key pro installation, under $2K for a mostly DIY with a couple hours of tech time for the final system pump-down/refrigerant charge/test.  The AOU-9RLS2-H puts out about 15,000BTU/hr @ +5F and 9000 BTU/hr @ -15F. 

The MSZ-FE09NA puts out about 11,000BTU/hr @ +5F and about 8000 BTU/hr @ -13F.  The newer -FH09 NA puts out comparable heat, but uses 15-20% less power.

Check out the 3rd party bench testing of a couple of 1-tons from a few years ago. They've all gotten better since.

Unlike most ducted air source heat pumps, mini-splits do not come with auxilliary strip heaters, though the cold-weather versions have small heaters to keep the compressor warm enough to start without damage when it's -10F out or whatever.  Defrost cycles on some of them are executed automatically by running them in air conditioning mode at low speed for a few minutes when ice-up is sensed, but you have to pay close attention to actually observe a defrost cycle.

Best practice is to mount the outdoor unit where it won't be buried in a roof-avalanche or drifting snow.  Bracket mounting it where it's protected by the overhanging rake of the roof, with the bottom above the historical snowpack depth saves you from ever having to dig it up after a big storm.  Mounting it under the eaves works too, as long as the overhang is sufficient to fully protect from icicles & ice dams, and you allow for some additional snow depth.  If you don't have sufficient roof overhangs  it's worth building a shed roof or open dog-house with sufficient clearances on all sides so as not to restrict air flow, as that would affect both capacity and efficiency.

We design and install mechanical systems in Minneapolis and do many full tear-outs with new plumbing, insulation, radiant floors and ventilation including radon mitigation. As Dana suggests the loads are low and in a basement like the one you describe we often use a combi water heater to heat DHW and space. If the walls are flat and sound Thermax goes up first with studs to cover and done, ok add batts if you want to go over-the-top as I did in my own. If the walls are rough for moisture and issue, we address the source of moisture as best you can and blow high density foam behind the studs.

The rim joist should be foamed after outdoor faucets and you ERV are installed.

Ventilation is critical so the ERV is a must, but cooling is rarely needed unless you have significant and constant loads, e.g. basement office, kitchenette etc.

A mini-split would be fine if you have but one room, but the comfort will not be perfect. If the original slab is left in place, a dehumidifier would be in order and the heat generated will likely keep the basement comfortable in most weather.