hot water tank
Last Post 07 Feb 2015 07:01 PM by tbrooks. 6 Replies.
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RobertEUser is Offline
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30 Jan 2015 02:29 PM
Is it true that there is some weird rule in Ontario that you can't use a propane 60,000 BTU water tank heater in a closed system radiant floor heating in a detached garage? The tank always has a reserve of hot water (or glycol) and cheaper to run than a boiler that has no reserve. This system has been used for years in the USA, Europe and I think every other province in Canada. I heard you need potable water. I don't want potable water in my garage and it can't be confused for hot water.......it's RED
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30 Jan 2015 03:48 PM
I am not familiar with the subtleties of Ontario HVAC code, but as you indicated, hot water tanks are frequently used for hydronic radiant floor heating. However, I don’t think glycol is allowed in gas fired appliances as it is considered flammable if it leaks.
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BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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30 Jan 2015 05:05 PM
Oh boy.

Please disregard "I am not familiar" as that is an understatement.

Inhibited propylene glycol is the standard for closed-loop hydronic systems where freeze protection is required. We do indeed use combi-water heaters and dedicated water heaters for space heating here in the States on a regular basis. As it is in Canada, much depends on your administrative authority. It is always wise to call and ask before proceeding with anything "unusual".

We use many design and install many combi-water heating systems and service and replace many more. They are generally a good idea in load load systems and we use them on systems that will have the unavoidable micro-zone such as a sun room.

Using a water heater as a boiler is generally a bad fit since they all lack outdoor reset and in your case will require 40 gallons of propylene glycol before you get to the system. This is a non-starter. Better is to use a sealed combustion condensing boiler closely sized to load or run lines from the house boiler to the garage. We also use a sub-system with a plate heat exchanger separating the house DHW from the garage or the boiler heat transfer fluid from the garage anti-freeze.

Many options for the knowledgeable contractor.

Start with a proper heat load to determine your required output and choose the heat source from this invaluable information.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
RobertEUser is Offline
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30 Jan 2015 11:19 PM
Thanks for your information (just got it, I forgot to click the submit) I never mentioned I have been using a 40 gal. Home Depot water heater since 2010 with propylene glycol but it's only 3800 or 4000 watts, so it doesn't keep up. I would need an 8000 watt heater and the Ontario Hydro Rates would put me in the poor house. I live in the country and there is no Natural Gas here. My house heats with oil and the insurance companies don't like oil tanks, afraid of a leak. But a propane bomb beside the house is okay. I can get a LP hot water tank that was is storage and never used for a good price. Besides a propane boiler being expensive, puts out very hot water and needs mixing valves and a condensing pump I wonder if it uses a lot more gas than the HW tank because it lacks a storage reserve? Or am I out to lunch on this? This sealed combustion condensing boiler sounds interesting. Are they reliable and not extremely expensive? Thanks again
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31 Jan 2015 07:49 PM
We design many systems with condensing water heaters and isolate the PG with a plate HX.

It sounds like a condensing boiler or water heater is in your future.

As for a LP bomb, it is statistically very safe. The LP industry enjoys one of the most educated technical cores in N. America. Now finding an experience condensing appliance installation/service company is another matter.

I use propane for cooking and the fireplace insert plus backup boiler for off-peak electric. It's a complicated world.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
RobertEUser is Offline
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01 Feb 2015 05:21 PM
Guess I went over the top with the LP bomb. Still pissed over having to replace a top quality oil tank every few years. Can't they send a camera down and check? Sorry, I'm off topic. Not sure what you mean by isolate the PG with plate HX? I just have a closed system which goes through three loops in the floor and then back into the water tank. Don't want or need any hot water in detached garage.
tbrooksUser is Offline
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07 Feb 2015 07:01 PM
Propylene glycol... Heat exchanger, is what he meant
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