This morning it is 5 degrees F, the geothermal system is cycling 20 on/7off and at times  12on/6off, are these cycle times
related to "stage 1" "stage 2" operations ? my usage is about 3.3kw per hr and I will probably see 80kwh of usage today, that
includes all appliances. I don't have any way of measuring the geo (wishes he had welserver)

Cycle lengths are almost the least interesting to a trouble shooter as they are impacted by so many factors.
Usage is slightly more so, but not with out load info.
Easiest things a homeowner can check that might indicate trouble to us remote techs is entering and leaving, water and air temps.
Good luck,
J

Joe I have one return air of 24x23 grill, it sits in the hall way

Measure return air temp as near to the unit as possible - typically at air filter.

Measure supply temp at a register very near unit, and one as far away as possible.

Need both waterside temps as well, entering and leaving

I need to get a measuring device to measure water temps, I am still searching for a sensor and measureing device for the EWT
Supply register close to the compressor has been giving me 82.9 - 80.1 and the register farthest away 91deg the return temp in the hallway
is 70.1 to 71, to get some reading by the filter is going to require another measuring device which I have yet to aquire until then we will
just have an opinion.
The system has been able to survive the -8.5 deg F temps and able to keep the house warm, just seems to be a little high in usage. I will be visting
our ace hardware soon to see what they have.

Based on our earlier communications(5 ton for a 45K load) I would expect your temp rise to be in the 30 degree range. You mentioned the R/A register, what is the trunk size?
J

Tuffluck,
if you are watching. As the in house Earthlinked guru, any thoughts on a 5 ton for a 45K load in a heating dominated climate?
J

Hmm, trunk size, where is that at ? where the return air connections are downstairs ? also the return air register is in a hall closet modified with this
grill. do you mean the plenum downstairs for the supply ?

Sorry, where the return air is tapped to the unit, i'm interested in the horizontal trunk above that and if it is fed from 1 side or both sides of the drop.
J

Well I will measure the horz trunk tommorow but the geo has two feeds one to the east and one to the west not sure of the size but will try to get that
tommorow. also I should mention i was told that the tstat never calls for emergy heat, the system runs at half load when running at 100%

heres a picture of the system. http://picasaweb.google.com/silvermachineman/GeothermalInstall?authkey=JMC2Nf6tl88#5235539537994387330

Cool album.

Need to insulate DSH lines to / from Marathon water heater and its cold and hot water lines at least for the first few feet away but I digress.

You do need to isolate geo's power use in order to draw reasonable conclusions about its effectiveness.

I don't understand why a register close to unit is at low 80s but a distant one is 91

Where are you and what is design winter temp for this system?

As far as a 5 ton on a 45K BTU load, I'd need to know:
-ground temp
-configuration of loop (vertical, 100' per ton; horizontal pit; horizontal trench)
-design temp.
-balance point

Nice photos,

Just to point out that this is not a DX system, the label says Geocomfort

.Another possible problem are the lines running to and from the flow center to the heat pump. They appear to be 1" copper. With lots of elbows and pipe.
A 5 ton heat pump needs 15 gpm of flow. I see you have pressure gauges, have you determined the flow?

Going back to your first post on this topic:

I am suprised that using 80KWh in one day with outdoor temps at -8F is considered high.

I understand that I am focusing on the energy usage and not the EWT, LWT, etc (which should definitely be evaluated by the pros here), but can someone answer if this is truly a high amount of energy use for a 5 ton system?

The reason I ask is because when temps are extremely cold, like if the day has 60 HDD's, then my geo usage is around 60 KWh's for that day. In addition, I can have 10-20 KWh's of aux heat usage. And I have a 3 ton system.

It was extremely cold this morning with temps hovering 0 deg F, and the cycling was 20/7 on/off, I did not notice anything shorter. indoor temps 70 deg
tstat set for 69, as for the different register temps I am suspecting the damper in the duct has cut the flow, I moved the damper in the one in question
and now can see air movement against a kleenix placed over the register (i am monitoring with a temp gauge now)
dimensions for the "trunk" 20"x20 1/4" the return 14" x 26" with the grill in the hallway measuring 23 x 24 additionally the copper pipe to/from the water heaters are insulated, the pictures shown were on the completion day and I went around installing pipe insulating covers. The meters used on the
source LWT and the EWT are very curious difficult to read because of the scale but if I were to interpert the readings i would say 12gpm indication but
the temp is just too difficult to read it is not registered on the scale the meter uses as it is scaled 70F to 250F whereas water flow is scaled 0-130
I measured the Kwh usage at 9:15am and from 9am yesterday was 87 kwh, water usage yesterday for shower not sure this is the above average increase since the temps were 0 deg F overnight. I agree with geodean there are a lot of elbows getting to the unit but very unlikely this will change. I do need to get a temp measuring meter so I can get water temps, that is on my shopping list. I might add that 25 to 30kwh could be deducted from total of 87 for house electrical usage. I agree with the comment kwh usage for geo needs to be read seperately, perhaps I am considering that need while shopping for a instrument. The welserver would be the cats meyow for all these different temp readings and provide a
window for evaluating the the entire system.

I took some pictures of the gauges the first is the source meter, and with closer inspection it doesnt indicate any pressure either does the other meter.
I find this impossible, the system wouldnt be working at all i would think The duct with the damper (all have these dampers) and I suspect they are the reason I am getting such a wide difference of temperatures at the source vents. additionally pictures of one of the trenchs (near the end of the loop field)
has a scarey sink hole, I covered it with sand and gravel as best I could but if it still shows up this spring im going to have a load of dirt dumped over that area. http://picasaweb.google.com/silvermachineman/GeothermalMisc#

Ona,

A heat pump will use roughly 1 KWH per ton.

So if you have a 5 ton heat pump and it runs 20 hours a day,  it will use 100 kwh for the day.

If your 3 ton heat pump ran 24 hours a day,  you could expect  72 kwh for the day plus what ever aux heat.

Hope this helps.

wirechief,

I have seen your photos before,  do you have them posted on another site?


The sink hole could be normal settling,  or you could have a leak there.   While leaks are not common,  you need to find out why your system pressure is 0.

Those gauges are pretty worthless.

I would figure out a way to add some pressure ASAP