Hi,

My 8 yr old Florida Heat Pump duel compressor unit broke this spring and now I'm looking to either fix it or replace it.
I got 4 quotes from local contractors and I don't have enough data to decide which one to go for.  Why are the prices so different?  Some rep was telling me the Climate master unit is prong to errors while my current quote is the cheapest!  Anyone knows the review of these heat pumps?


Florida Heat Pump AP071 6 ton 2 stage system $10,055
Climate Master Tranquility 27 6 ton 2 stage  $6,975.00.
Carrier 6 ton 2 stage $8,000
 
GEOCOMFORT HEAT PUMPS WITH HOT WATER PACKAGE. (GT072A11LT1CD) 2 STAGE COOLING/ 3 STAGE HEAT & R410A REFRIGERANT    $12,522.00

All above include the labor and material necessary to finish the job.

Any helps will be appreciated!

Why would you even consider a Florida if the last one went out at 8 years? With a life like that even propane would be cheaper.

Sigh, well, supposed the newly designed Florida Heat Pump has one compressor and has been reliable according to the contractor.

Shouldn't Florida stand behind their product? I'd be whining and moaning to them asking what they are going to do about their product failing at 8 years regardless of what the warranty is. An 8 year failure defeats the whole purpose of a premium priced product whose sole purpose is to save money in the "long run". If there is no "long run" then there is no point to the product.

They need to take care of you. Let us know if they do. I'm going to be looking hard at a geo system late this year and up to now had heard mostly favorable things about Florida. But if they tell you tough luck when their pump fails at 8 years then there's no way I'm even going to consider them.

The FHP unit I have has a 30 month warranty and that's all they stand behind. The new design (single compressor) so far has good reputation but obviously it has not been tested with time yet. The technician did mention that the duel compressor has a bad reputation of failure. The new models of heat pumps from different brands all come with a longer warranty now - 10 year for compressor. I think now that their technology is better they finally are willing to stand behind it more.

Where are you located? That seems like a high price for just an FHP.

You haven't mentioned features, but make sure you get the DSH for tax credit qualification.
Carrier and CM are the same unit the low price seems too low to include cupronickel exchanger, DSH and auxiliary heater. Around here that package would be about 10K.
What do their refrences say about them?
J

I'm located in Iowa. I couldn't find any reviews/references on these contractors on-line but they seem to have been in business here for a long time now. The price for the FHP includes labor also, does that still seem too much? It is the 6-ton unit, so that is probably the biggest for residential already? What would be your price? Certainly the ClimateMaster price is more attractive to me but it seems too low too according to the competitor contractor.

To Joe.ami, what kind of feature are you looking for? The ClimateMaster Tranquility 27 has the backup heater, it will connect to my water heater to pre-heat hot water. The cupronickel exchanger was not mentioned but whether it has it or not shouldn't it be standard for the Tranquility 27 model?

Can someone rank the these four brand of heat pumps as far as the quality goes?

away_98;



 If you live in an area where you can get FOUR bids you are lucky because that means competition! You said the companies have been doing Geo for a while so with all that competition there must be a reason for the $5K price difference.

With such a large difference in quotes, are all four bidding the same work? Are the two higher bids doing extra work? Did any of them take the time to explain what they are proposing and why? Are all of them offering the same warranty? Desuperheaters? Electric Strip Heaters? Did they give you a list of references to call? Did you call them?I would call EVERY one of them!!

I know it's a lot of questions but to get the best contractor you must do the leg work.

Milt

Ask bidders for customer references. Check with local building departments (mechanical inspectors) some may be willing to offer opinions (though they may be subtle).
 6 ton unit is largest resi and again depending on many things 10K would be a starting point.
Regarding features, cupro nickel is not standard in the CM's nor is it necessary in closed loop apps. Yes aux. coil and DSH were noteworthy as well but most importantly, you now seem to be indicating that some quotes include installation and some don't, that's the kind of feature in a bid that is useful for us to know to help you compare prices. Are you able to give us apples to apples bids (i.e. all with installed price)?
Regarding quality I believe there is near parity in the industry. Best contractor is more important. Next is warranty (don't you wish your last unit had a 10 year compressor warranty?).
Good Luck,
J

All four bids are including labor and material and the unit. All 4 brands have 10 year warranty on the compressor. Only the GeoComfort also has 10 year parts and labor warranty, the rest have 5 year parts and 1 year labor warranty. However GeoComfort unit costs about $9000 according to the sales rep while the other quotes can be around $8000 including the units and installation. If I go with the GeoComfort, it is like I'm spending a few grands just to buy the warranty. The GeoComfort contractor includes some extra work such as using polyethylene pipe instead of PVC pipe, add insulation of the copper pipe going to the water heater, add a GEOFLOW DUAL-PUMP CENTER so that I don't have to check the reservoir any more. He seems to want to use the best of everything but his quote cost a lot compare to the other quotes. Some other people told me these modification is not very necessary. The Florida Heat Pump contractor quote will also convert the current non-pressurized system to pressurized system.

Thanks for reminding me to ask for reference.

So the geocomfort guy found some problems? Did he explain the problems and the fixes? Did the others find problems? What was their fixes?

There is one thing you know...You will have at least a ten year relationship with the geocomfort guy so his references better be good!!

Milt

- Why would you not go with either the carrier or the tranquility?
- Ask each contractor about a 10 year parts/labor warranty. Then you can compare apples to apples.
- Price for all but carrier and tranquility seem high. You only have to exchange out and connect the unit - not a full install.
- Lets be honest, a GSHP unit should not be that much more than regular heatpump unit (the well field and pumps and manifolds make up the costs difference - along with the design costs/efforts).

For a price idea, the link below goes to Mquay 5 ton unin + all items for the DITY type (supposedly). Price is $7,625. http://www.homeairdirect.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=354

A copper nickle coil is not that much more than a regular coil (or at least the 4 ton coil I bought was not much different).

If you buy the carrier and pay $25 / month more and have to spend $2,000 fixing the unit in 5 years you are still way ahead of most of the other units.

That's just my 400 characters of comment :) Best of luck what ever you do.

my installer has been building his own brand of heat pumps for 30+ years, but he also sells Floridas for the people who prefer a brand name, last year a good friend of mine got a 4-ton Florida heat pump, no desuperheater, installed price $9500 CDN with the loop.

Building a heat pump is not difficult. Paying 10's of thousands to certify it and qualify you for the tax credit as well as warranting the product for years to come is the tough part. I'll wager the inspectors in the neigborhoods he works are not too savvy either (appliances require certifications).
Doesn't make his product bad, just a reminder that their is no free lunch.
J

Alex,

You said>>Why would you not go with either the carrier or the tranquility?
- Ask each contractor about a 10 year parts/labor warranty. Then you can compare apples to apples.

If you would have read the entire thread you would see there is something else going on here. Away 98 lives in an area where there is a LOT of competition. These bids should be within 1k of each other. My guess would be the Florida Heat Pump and GeoComfort contractors are bidding extra work. So getting a 10 year p&l from everyone would not be "apples to apples".

>>Price for all but carrier and tranquility seem high. You only have to exchange out and connect the unit - not a full install.

Really? You know what the costs are in Iowa all the way from Florida?? Away 98 has said the GeoComfort contractor wants to do some extra work. I wish Away 98 would let us know exactly what the differences in the bids are so we could better advise her.

>>For a price idea, the link below goes to Mquay 5 ton unin + all items for the DITY type (supposedly). Price is $7,625.

What does that price have ANYTHING to do with the prices for Away 98? The local contractors price includes...Labor...Insurance...Licensing...Taxes...
Vehicles...Maintenance...Stock...Education...Continuing Education...
24 hour service so he can make you comfortable at 2:30AM when it's 20* below zero. (Will your internet guy do that?) and a mark-up on costs so he can stay in business!! Some contractors don't know what all those costs are and that is reflected in a LOW BID. They are also the ones that will not be around for long to help you should a problem arise!!

>>A copper nickle coil is not that much more than a regular coil (or at least the 4 ton coil I bought was not much different).

A cooper nickle coil is only needed for an open loop system, not a closed loop.

Milt

If you really wanted to dig into it, look at the exact compressor in each one.

Thank you all for your comments. Well, I thought my original description is clear enough, but maybe not. Here I'll try to do it again,


1. Florida Heat Pump AP071 6 ton 2 stage system $10,055 (price include all material and labor for uninstall old unit & install the new unit, thet will convert the current non-pressurized system to pressurized system, 10 year warranty on compressor, 5 year warranty on parts, 1 year warranty on labor)

2. Climate Master Tranquility 27 6 ton 2 stage $6,975.00.(price include all material and labor for uninstall old unit & install the new unit, 10 year warranty on compressor, 5 year warranty on parts, 1 year warranty on labor)

3. Carrier 6 ton 2 stage $8,000 (price include all material and labor for uninstall old unit & install the new unit, 10 year warranty on compressor, 5 year warranty on parts, 1 year warranty on labor)

4. GEOCOMFORT HEAT PUMPS WITH HOT WATER PACKAGE. (GT072A11LT1CD) 2 STAGE COOLING/ 3 STAGE HEAT & R410A REFRIGERANT $12,522.00 (price include all material and labor for uninstall old unit & install the new unit, will also convert the current non-pressurized system to pressurized system. they GeoComfor unit itself cost $9000. 10 year warranty on labor, parts and compressor)

From the surface, ClimateMaster contractor has the best value. The thing I'm worried about is that if I get what I pay for, then does that mean climatemaster has the least quality? That's why I need some other user's input on whether ClimateMaster is a reliable unit. Even though GeoComfort has the best warranty but it is so expensive and then the contractor charges a lot to install it, it seems to be unreasonable.

K, I think I got it correct me if I'm wrong...
All units have aux. coils and De-superheaters?
If so then the difference between the 2 high and 2 low bids is a new flow center and required flush. The guys that are not changing your flow center can top you off with a garden hose when they are done. That is a $2,000 difference.
The Climate master guy is too low. He won't be in business a year from now if you need service, or he's so new at this he doesn't even know what the job costs him. What else doesn't he know? The price of the 5 ton McQuay mentioned above helps illustrate why I have concerns with this one.
So the FHP and the Carrier (re-labeled Climate master) are about the same price (except the FHP guy wants to do $2K in flo center) and warranty and they are right in the middle of the price range.
Why do two of the contractors wish to change the flow center? How often do you have to "top off" the resevoir?
You can probably get 10 year part and labor from all the other guys, but it will cost quite a bit (though less than $2,500).
Regarding the compressor question jonr asked, answer is ........Copeland...(they are all the same).
The question is "do you hve to have a new flow center?". When you answer that you'll have your dealer.
J