I'm not sure our GSHP or t-stat is set up properly as we are using as much as 77 kwh/day in Feb (09, Feb 08 was 74kWh/day) to run GSHP with 1500 kW aux heat strip.

Two 279-ft vertical wells, desuperheater.  Have experimented with setting t-stat in lower level (app. 1350 sf) back to 65 at night, run up to 68 during the day coming up in 1 degree increments.  Upstairs (app 1300 sf) we leave it at 67 during day, up to 68 when kids go to bed, down to 67 at 11pm, back up to 68 at 6am.  We have also tried just leaving both zones set at 67 or 68.  Not much difference - seems like aux heat is kicking in during the really cold months whether we leave it set at same temp or bring it up in 1 degree increments. 

T-stat is Honeywell 9000 IAQ.  Settings are:

0172 (system type) - 2E (HP with Auto Discover)
0174 (cooling compressor stages) - 2E (2 stages, AD?)
0176 (heating compressor stages) - 1E (1 stage, AD?)
0190 (changeover valve) - 0 (O/B terminal controls valve in cooling - what's that?
0200 (backup heat) - 0E (electric, AD)
0220 (stage 1 compressor cycle rate) - 3E (3 CPH, AD?)
0230 (stage 2 compressor cycle rate) - 3E (3 CPH, AD?)
0240 (Stage 1 heat cycle rate) - 5E (5 CPH, AD?)
0300 (auto/manual changeover) - 0 (manual - should I change this?)
0342 (outdoor sensor) - 1 (remote) - not sure why this doesn't say E as well, since the other functions with AD do.
0350 (HP compressor lockout) - 0 (none - good? Manual says if we have remote sensor, should select lockout)
0360 (HP Aux lockout) - 0 (none - I think we should set this, so if outside temp is above certain point, only HP runs? But what's reasonable?)
0365 (discharge sensor) - 1 (yes)
0370 (Indoor humidity sensor) - 0E (disabled, but should autodiscover? - Honeywell told me there was one)
0400 (ventilation control) - 0 (none)
0530 (Adaptive Recovery) - 1 (on)
0580 (compressor off time) - 5 (minutes)
0600 (heat range temp stop) - was 90, I changed to 75
0610 (cool range temp stop) - was 60, I changed to 65
0650 (extended fan time heat) - 0 (off)
0660 (extended fan time cool) - 0 (off)
0680 (heat temp control) - 2 (factory setting)
0690 (cool temp control) - 2 (factory setting)

It looks like the Aux heat is set up for one 15kW stage, though I don't know why installer would have changed Climatemaster's default of 5kW 1st stage, 10kW 2nd stage.  He isn't answering my questions, just saying when I have maintenance this summer ask the tech about staging and reviewing/changing settings.  They recommend keeping t-stat set to same temp all the time - kind of defeats the purpose of installing a programmable t-stat with IAQ (which they picked, not me).

Can anyone tell me what the staging is on this HP and if I should change t-stat settings myself (like lockout temp - a recommended lockout would be appreciated)?  We are trying to save on our electricity bill this winter.  For the record, we do not turn on the breaker for the Aux heat until about Tgiving each year, turn it off around 1 April.  But for those 5 months (esp. Jan &  Feb) the electricity bills are over $400/mo at CT's high rates.  Thanks.

for starters 176 should be set for two heat stages.


Any idea what your EWT was during the winter?

No idea - any number I'd give you would be a swag.

I don't know if setting 0176 to 2 stage before heating season would be all I'd have to do, or if installer changed the Aux Heat strip wiring from Climatemaster default. Installer just said to ask tech when we had our maintenance done this year. I'm not keen on changing anything (not even t-stat settings) myself since I don't want a finger-pointing warranty issue.

Can you make any other recommendations for changes, or for questions to ask the tech?

There's a lot of setting changes I'd make on your thermostat, but that's not why your using 77kw/day.
What size heat pump do you have?
Where do you live?
j

Oops saw the 4 ton in your title. disregard that question.

I would ask your installer to show the estimated KW usage that he did when he sized your heat pump. If he didn't do this, then he is doing all of his customers a disservice.

If your heat pump never leaves 1st stage in heating ( this is how the tsat is set ), then aux heat has to come on to keep the house warm.

By contrast, I have a 4.5 ton heat pump and I averaged 33 KWH per day in December and January.

I am betting that you paid the installer a lot of money for this system. Don't let him blow you off. 77 KWH a day is way to much.

We live in CT near Hartford. He said he did a Manual J but never got me the calculations, even though I asked for them about a month ago when I started questioning him about the staging and why both winters we've been in the house we use so much electricity.

We use roughly 40 kWh/day when not heating ( and only a couple more when cooling), and about 50-60 kWH/day in the month or so before we turn the Aux Heat breaker on but we're heating with the GSHP, and the month of April after we turn it off for the spring but are still using heat.

I posted the usage data from this past winter copied from my electric company's website onto the Year in Review thread that Joe started. Coldest period we had here (1/1/09 -1/19/09) was 22.5 F avg, they estimated 82 kWH/day but then when they read the meter 2 weeks later it dropped to 77 kwH/day. So either my meter is really screwy each Jan and Feb (not unheard of - CL&P's been sued for erratic readings), or we are pulling that 15KW aux heat all day long.

ajsmama,

Do NOT allow your contractor to dictate to you. If your system is not working properly and he doesn't want to come out, find someone that will!! The stat needs a GOOD tech to go through the settings and tweek a few.

Bergy

We're locked into a 3 yr contract for maintenance (that we have to pay for each year, not included in installation price) so I can't have anyone else touch the system for warranty purposes. But when I schedule the maintenance I will tell them I need someone who knows how to install and set these up because I don't think it's configured optimally. I want someone who can rewire the strips so I have 2 stages on the Aux.

What settings do I need to have them change on the stat?

Thanks

Wait a minute, are you saying this 77 to 80 KW/day is with regular household use and you average 40 with the heat pump off?

Yes - this is our total usage, I haven't isolated the HP. No prior history since this was new construction. Is 40kwh/day high for normal (non HVAC) use for family of 4 with electric dryer? I don't have bills from old house, that was in different state with different rates so bills here are higher. That house had oil HWBB and no hot water tank, we used 1000 gallons a year. Terrible drafty old windows, don't know what insulation in walls was (we added basement and attic).

Here is non-heating usage from 2008 in this house.

10/16/2008
1139 29 days 39.28kWh/day $216.05 avg temp 58
09/17/2008
1368 33 days 41.45kWh/day $256.47 avg temp 68.9
08/15/2008
981 25 days 39.24kWh/day $188.16 avg temp 72.4
07/21/2008
1349 34 days 39.68kWh/day $249.13 avg temp 74.3
06/17/2008
1248 32 days 39.00kWh/day $224.20 avg temp 65.5
05/16/2008
1191 29 days 41.07kWh/day $214.17 avg temp 56.2

Heating season early 2008 (aux heat on)

02/19/2008
2448 33 days 74.18kWh/day $422.26 avg temp 31
01/17/2008
2011 30 days 67.03kWh/day $345.85 avg temp 34

late 2008 (aux heat off, just HP)

11/17/2008
1578 32 days 49.31kWh/day $293.53 avg temp 47.5

transition month (turned breaker on after Tgiving, so almost this whole month was HP only)

12/18/2008
1774 31 days 57.23kWh/day $328.13 avg temp 34.3 (heat set to 55 for one week while on vacation, but we had an ice storm and lost power the day we came home, had to warm up quickly)

Aux Heat on all the time

03/19/2009
1893 29 days 65.28kWh/day $355.72 avg temp 34.9
02/18/2009
2299 30 days 76.63kWh/day $428.59 avg temp 27.8
01/19/2009
1566 19 days 82.41kWh/day $290.47 (estimated) avg temp 22.5
12/31/2008
964 13 days 74.18kWh/day $176.30 (estimated) avg temp 29.7

And our last bill (turned Aux Heat breaker off 4/1/09)

04/20/2009
1576 32 days 49.25kWh/dya $298.83 avg temp 45.2 (so were running HP only for 3 weeks, Aux Heat for 1 week)

What makes you think something is wrong? Your highest heating bill was maybe $200 at a horrible electric price. Dewayne's usage is close to the same as yours and the difference might be heating degree days.
I don't see a smoking gun here, so, yeah you may want to ask for help with the thermostat now, but don't accuse your equipment of extremely poor performance. Stuff like that will really turn your contractor off and tends to make them want to spend less time with you.
j

I'm not accusing anybody of anything, I just noticed that it looked like the system was set for 1 stage, no lockout, so maybe the Aux Heat is running more than it really has to be. We're looking to reduce our electricity bills if we can since it's gone to over $400 each Feb. Installer originally told us to keep stat set to constant temp, no setback since over 2 degrees will cause Aux to kick in, so we set it for 1 degree every 45 min and still seemed like aux heat might be running a lot. Changed it to Hold during April 09, didn't really see a difference. Not to mention I'm wondering why he quoted programmable then after install said don't use that feature. Any changes to settings or program schedule anyone could suggest would be greatly appreciated.

My relatives who heat with wood think our bills are outrageous, but DH says there are people he works with who have other heating (and sometimes HW) fuels and our bills aren't that much more than theirs. Of course, we don't know if they have multiple big-screen TVs and other electronics that we don't, if their kids take more showers, etc.

We really didn't know what to expect from geothermal, just knew when we were building we didn't want to depend on oil. We've told everyone who's called us asking for info that we have really spent a lot less than we would have for oil (though exactly how much oil this house would have used as compared to old house we don't know), just based on delta b/t this system (34K after 2K rebate from CL&P - unfortunately only $500 fed credit in 2007) and oil-fired hydro-air with central AC (30K quote) we figured we'd break even in just a few years, depending on cost of oil vs increased electricity cost.

ajsmama,

The T-Stat can be set up as programmable or non-programmable. It should be set as a non-programmable stat. Geothermal is a very SLOW heat, for that reason a night set-back is not recommended. Some on the forum have argued the point but I've seen no proof of any appreciable savings. In the cooling mode there normally is extra capacity so a day set-back would be OK. I would not advise more than a five or six degree set-back. Would you please send me a private message with ALL the settings on the T-Stat and I will see what needs to be tweeked.

Bergy

PS To send a private message click my name to the left of the post. When my profile loads click "send message".

0360 (HP Aux lockout) - 0 (none - I think we should set this, so if outside temp is above certain point, only HP runs? But what's reasonable?)
Set it for 20*!

Thanks Bergy - these are all the settings that I can access. I know there must be more, but even when I enter "Setup" mode I skip past a few numbers while scrolling.

I'm just wondering why we had 2 programmable stats installed if we're supposed to just leave them constant temp? Though I was the one who said we needed 2 zones (coming from oil heat, figured we'd want to set downstairs back at night and if I ever went back to work after youngest was in school, we'd set back the upstairs and downstairs during the day). Installer was the one who quoted the programmable though. Comes in handy while on vacation. But I'm wondering if we could have saved a little $ if we had manual stats.

This is first house we've had with central air, so we're just used to ceiling fans. Tend to leave stat at 74 unless it gets sticky, then may change it to 72. But no lower than that. We sure got used to nice toasty 68 during winter though - I know we can save $ by setting it to 65 and putting on more layers, but DD and I wear slippers and sweaters at 68.

There is NO point in haveing 2 zones if you keep them the exact same temp
There is NO point in haveing a programable t-stat if you dont use it
There is NO point in haveing any adjustable thermostat if you dont adjust it .

Once you learn through use your systems limitations, you can decide how to use your thermostats .
I can tell you any zoned system should have plenty of spare capacity in most cases while only 1 zone is calling .
I can also tell you keeping your house warmer then you need will cost you more then you want .

Some people will tell you not to touch your thermostat . I realy wonder why they dont just put thermistors in the return duct .

The difference in cost between your programable and a non-programable HP stat is maybe $20

May I respectfully disagree:

A major purpose of zoning is to address differing loads in different areas of a structure as seasons, occupancy, time of day, etc change.

It is perfectly OK to set every zone at the same temperature. I like to be at 76-77 all summer. I like that temp whether I'm upstairs or down. Having several thermostats all set for 77 allows the system to concentrate its capacity on the part of the house that needs it most.

With a common return it is difficult to get one zone more than a few degrees different from the others anyway.

True but balancing the load to maintain even temps through out the home can be done with ductwork alone
If you have different loads ( which everyone does ) you should have different size ducts , to maintain even temps
You COULD accomplish this through zoning as a band aid but its just that . If this is your goal going in ( same temps everywhere ) zoning not only is a waste of money ( compared to good duct design ) but will cause additional cycling /wear on your equipment .
Even with heat / cool load differences can be addressed with a couple trunk volume dampers adjusted 2 times a year (a little cheaper then 500 in zoning material )
In my mind the right ( or my right ) reason to zone is to decrease the load on the system by attempting to keep the occupied zone at comfort levels and unoccupied a few degrees off .

You can debate zoning and programmable t-stats all you want, but the reality is that I have 2 zones, I'm not going to have them redo ductwork and change it to single zone. I've got the Honeywell VisionPro IAQs, glad to hear we didn't pay a lot more for them, but how can I use them most effectively for energy efficiency given present situation where we have someone home (mostly downstairs) during the day? If the most energy-efficient thing I can do during heating season is leave them set the same (or upstairs lower but downstairs higher, bout each maintained constant) then that's what we'll do. As I said, at least I think we save a little by dropping temp for a week while we're on vacation each winter. Are we keeping house too warm (68) in winter and too cool (74) in summer? I don't think we're paying that much to keep it 74 instead of 77, but if we can save a fair amount by not running Aux Heat, I'll set the winter temp to 65. We used programmable upstairs with oil heat in old house and used to drop it even lower during the day and in the middle of the night, have it come up right before bed and then again right before getting up. Downstairs no program, but since we both worked it was set to somewhere between 62 and 65 (until our last 2 winters in the house on maternity leave with a newborn and then after I quit my job the next year a 1-yr old, I think I had to keep it pretty warm for her - probably around 68 - but I ran the wood stove there a lot too the last winter).

Also, 0176 is not set correctly on the t-stat. I can get installer's tech to change that to 2 stages, also check wiring and DIPs to make sure Aux Heat is wired for 2 stages as Climatemaster defaults to (5kW and 10kW). Other than those two changes (and maybe an Aux lockout temp of about 20*F), what other changes would you recommend?

Thanks