Hey guys, in the process of building my ICF home and had Rob at NRT do my heat load calcs and a local distributor for Climate Master just told me that they have some old stock and some scratch and dent units with full warranty they are looking to move at great prices.

Here is the unit that fits the bill for my home. Im not all up to speed on Geo so im hoping to lean on the experience from you folks.

Im looking at a 5ton Genesis Water to Water unit...

Here is most recent reply...

"They have three old stock units, 5 ton, water to water genesis series, with desuperheater, copper nickel coil for corrosion resistance, for $4650.  These units are normally $9k."

They will not qualify for the 30% federal tax incentive. The water-to-water units are excluded.

Well that sucks! Wonder why!

Further when water to water units are included (as they likely will be), you may be required to have a 2 stage unit(Genesis is single stage). You are also getting R-22 instead of R-410.
Is any of that bad?
I don't think so (price is right), but make sure you understand the differences.
Joe

those of you who know the prices of this unit, is it truely a 9k unit ? Im trying to determine if this really is a nice cost savings.

Rob from NRT says my energy usage for the Climate master will be about 7000 kwh per year.

We pay less than that for the ClimateMaster. In addition, Hydron has a water-to-air unit, combined with a water-to-water unit that qualifies for the 30% tax credit. We work in the state of Washington and Oregon. E-mail: howard@hendricksonhvac.com Website: www.hendricksonhvac.com

Well since you guys are buying them cheaper maybe its not a great deal after all.

Anyone have any advice or thoughts on this package ?

http://ingramswaterandair.com/geothermal-packaged-heat-pump-with-install-package-closed-loop-horizontal-application-p-948.html?osCsid=3af60e3bd7d829c59b36f6faea75e975

I think he meant he get them cheaper then 9k, not $4,650 number you mentioned.    

Im unsure, it doesnt sound that way to me, hopefully he comes back to clarify

What's more important to you... a good deal or a system that works properly?
The internet packages are cheap, but when it doesn't work who you gonna call? Ghost Busters? Mr. internet isn't going to return calls, he's too busy suckering the next guy. Who's going to do the warranty work? NOBODY!!! You WILL be charge for parts and labor because no one  will take time to contact Mr. internet and argue with him that the part failed. If we didn't install it, it matters not that it's under warranty. We get paid for the work we do and WE guarantee the products we install!

Time to choose John... Do you want a system that's cheap to install or one that is cheap to operate? Rarely can you have both.

Bergy

Bergy,

Im sorry if i have offended you in someway. Im looking at my options and yes price is an issue with me. Im a semi do it yourself kind of person and have access to equipment to do all of the digging and what not so I tossed that out there.

to answer your question "Do you want a system that's cheap to install or one that is cheap to operate?"

I want both.

Im having NorthEast Radiant map and figure out my heating load and what not, whats the harm in investigating different setups and different geothermal types?

I believe it's possible to get both, it will require more time and effort on your part to get them thou.  I don't know why some contractors feel threatened by do-it-your-selfers, it's not like everyone is going to jump in a install there own systems. It's a very specialized field.  I believe engineer installed his own system, and it was the first one he ever did, but I do beleive he has a background in HVAC.  Bergy does bring up a good point thou, once the supplier cashes your check, additional help is going to be some what limited. I'm not familiar with the McQuay brand, you should do internet searches on McQuay and Ingram's Water & Air equipment for problems, ripoff, compalints, to see if anyone else has had problems with they they were sold. I quick interent search didnt turn up anything, but you shouldn't just take this guys website's word that all his customers are happy.

John,

Not offended... Just vigorously stressing a few points. I, myself, am a DIY guy. You need to weigh the arguments I've listed and come to your own conclusion. Remember, The forum has a long memory. All I ask is that you not come back to the web and bash geo because it costs 3 times what you were told, the manufacturer sucks and will not stand behind their product or local contractors are unwilling to help you out.

HVAC is really not a DIY job, add geo to that and it becomes much more complicated. Air velocities, duct static, Temperature rises, Superheat, Subcooling, Renyolds number and turbulent flow. If this is foreign to you I would pass...

If you want cheap, I would advise taking a geothermal install class. I don't know if they accept non-professionals but you can check out.
 www.heatspring.com However, It's not cheap to take the course.

Bergy

Can anyone verify if the unit as $4650 is a good price for the unit with desuperheater ?

Value depends in part on:

Warranty
2 stage or 1
R22 or 410
scroll or recip
EER / COP
noise
ecm or psc blower


Myself, if I was going through the aggravation, complexity and cost of a high end HVAC system such as geo, I wouldn't compromise the project by being penny-wise and pound foolish on the unit I installed.

Your Mileage Will Vary