Interested in Geothermal In Southern New Jersey
Last Post 28 Aug 2011 04:36 PM by waterpirate. 15 Replies.
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cqkyciaUser is Offline
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10 Jul 2009 11:50 AM

I'm considering replacing my current two zone system due to age (approaching 20 years), to gain efficency, and the benefits of a variable speed blower, IAQ, dual speed compressor, etc.  Also, before something does go wrong.  In addition to conventional split systems (gas furnances with AC units), I'm been reading up on Geoexchange systems.

I've read about open loop versus closed loop systems.  What type is preferred by the members of this site?  If I went with a closed loop system it would need to be a vertical installation.

Can anyone provide recommendations on Geothermal contractors in southern New Jersey (Philadelphia) area?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

waterpirateUser is Offline
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10 Jul 2009 04:12 PM
Hi and welcome,

Iwould call Millpond Mechanical sales in Port Republic fora list of experienced contractors serving your specific location.
Phone # 609-652-0072

You might even get to meet me in and my machine in person.

Eric Sackett
weberwelldrilling.com
Eric Sackett
www.weberwelldrilling.com
Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
TechGromitUser is Offline
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10 Jul 2009 09:20 PM
It's funny, I live right down the street from Port Republic, but never seen Millpond Mechanical sales anywhere in Port Republic, I suspect he runs his bussiness out of his house. Anyway I used

Grasso Air Conditioning Inc.
510 Boyer Ave
Hammonton, NJ 08037-2002
(609) 561-0002

before, they do open loop, mainly Florida Heat pumps. There's a couple of contractors more in the area, but I don't know anything about them.

Laury Heating
511 E Plum St
Vineland, NJ 08360-3799
(856) 629-3883

is State certified. I wasn't too happy with them, since they screwed up the inital install and didn't disable the backup electric heat like I requested, but in the end the system works as advertised. 

Open loop systems are suiteable for most of South Jersey, with a few exceptions. Closed loop system are more common since they are not dependent on the water quality of the well water, but open loops are generally more efficent, unless your getting into DX Closed loop systems.
hcp27golferUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2009 08:31 AM
Try CMS Geothermal in bordentown, NJ they have a excellent reputation. www.cmsgeothermal.com 609-298-3018  Also they have many installations in your area.
hcp27golferUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2009 08:32 AM
By the way DX is not legal in NJ

DX in New Jersey


Division of Water Supply
Bureau of Water Systems and Well Permitting
P.O. BOX 426
TRENTON, NEW JERSEY 08625‐0426
TELEPHONE (609) 984‐6831
FAX (609) 633‐1231
STATE WELL DRILLERS AND PUMP INSTALLERS
EXAMINING AND ADVISORY BOARD

State Well Drillers and Pump Installers Examining and Advisory Board
Meeting Minutes for January 27, 2009


He also proposed sending letters to local inspectors notifying them of the fact that DX systems have never been approved. H. Chudzik questioned whether the Board of Public Utilities had been approving and/or endorsing such illegal systems. A. Becker also questioned whether the Bureau could investigate systems that are believed to have been illegally installed within the state so they could also serve to yield data regarding the longevity of such systems.

For entire text see.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/watersupply/minutes_1_27_09.pdf

cqkyciaUser is Offline
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11 Jul 2009 10:21 PM

Thanks for the inputs.

A friend of mine who is a construction contractor had Grasso install his Geothermal system when he built his house going on ten years ago.  He has been very happy with his open loop system and has had no problems.

I've been spending many hours doing research on conventional and geoexechange systems.  I've also gotten multiple quotes, but I am taking my time before making a final decision.  I've learned that one has to be careful.  There are some great contractors out there and some who are not.

patrickryanUser is Offline
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31 Jul 2009 09:16 AM
I think those dep minutes referred to by hcp27golfer are actually from the March 19, 2009 meeting found at http://www.state.nj.us/dep/watersupply/minutes_3_19_09.pdf. Item 13 in the minutes clarifies the Division's policy. Those are the most recently published minutes. There have been two meetings since then but the minutes haven't been published yet. A list of all the minutes along with a scheudle of the 2009 meeting dates can be found at http://www.state.nj.us/dep/watersupply/advisoryboard.htm.

That's the latest info I can find. Does anyone know of any further developments on the legality of DX systems in New Jersey?
waterpirateUser is Offline
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31 Jul 2009 11:48 AM
You are kidding right???

everything is a hassle in new jearsey.

The latest back door info via the drillers grape vine from trenton is that dx will never be approved, just going through the motions talking about it.
Eric Sackett
weberwelldrilling.com
Eric Sackett
www.weberwelldrilling.com
Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
JAFF105User is Offline
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31 Jul 2009 02:03 PM
i had econar placed two years ago.... luv the system and it is paying me back over the cost of propane... estimated cost to change over our 2500 sqft ranch was $15k but worht every penny.
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01 Aug 2009 01:19 PM
I am happy with Gary Eschenberg of Ground Source Contractors (google their website) who did work for me in Philadelphia. I know he does a lot of work in Jersey too.
geo_curiousUser is Offline
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23 Aug 2011 02:38 PM
Any recommendations/suggestions for northern NJ?
Paul AuerbachUser is Offline
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27 Aug 2011 11:33 AM
The State of New Jersey currently does not approve vertical bore Direct Exchange Geothermal Systems although the folks at Earthlinked Systems (one of the larger DX heat pump manufacturers) say that one of their earth tap configurations - horizontal DX - is approved.  We've never been able to confirm this.  We, along with two DX geo heat pump manufacturers testified at the DEP in 2009 about Direct Exchange and how we protect our copper tubing.  The DEP's position is refrigeration grade copper piping is subject to corrosion.  Despite numerous scientific papers attesting cathodic protection mitigates corrosion they're adamant and most likely will not approve DX.  We believe this is simply to protect the well drillers because DX uses different drilling equipment than well drillers use.   New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland (along with most other states) approve DX and have written regulations for it's installation. 

Total Green Geo installs water loop systems in New Jersey to make the DEP happy.

Paul
www.TotalGreenUS.com
      

waterpirateUser is Offline
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27 Aug 2011 02:29 PM
Although DX appears to be approved for use in Delaware, DNREC has issued no addendums to the current regulations governing drilling.  To my knowledge they also have not issued a permit for a DX system either.  To think that well drillers are to blame for any trouble in NJ is up there with the tinfoil hats.  If Dx were cheaper to install or offered higher efficiency's based on real dollars ROI I would be drilling them.  Poking a 100' hole would be childs play.
NJ is a union state as well as being anal stupid about the enviroment they allready let get away from them.  The govt. and the union are your real enemy.
Eric
Eric Sackett
www.weberwelldrilling.com
Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
Paul AuerbachUser is Offline
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28 Aug 2011 09:51 AM
We've found the cost to install DX to be competitive with high end deep well water loop systems.

Paul
Total Green Geo
WWW.totalgreenus.com
Paul AuerbachUser is Offline
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28 Aug 2011 09:58 AM
We don't blame well drillers. NJDep are the culprits. You may have seen the junk science they hide behind to restrict DX. While we prefer DX, nothing stops us from installing water loops.

Paul
Total Green
waterpirateUser is Offline
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28 Aug 2011 04:36 PM
I agree that "junk science"  hides alot.  All of the state enviromental offices are so far behind on the topic of geothermal period, that they are waaaaaay behind on DX.
Eric
Eric Sackett
www.weberwelldrilling.com
Visit our Geothermal Resource Center!
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