This a public forum where people who most often are diy come looking for information and help with problems and installs and quotes.  Those of us that are proffesionals often miss the mark when trying to help these people.  They need/require straight forward information and tools to get them garaunteed results for the issue at hand.  I admit it is fun to talk about moonbeams and methods to squeak out every possible dutch nickle from every kw of electric that enters our homes, these discussions do not help the original poster.  Just a reality check for those of us who have the ability to overcomplicate everything to save a nickle of consumption, at the cost of more moving parts and a service nightmare.

Not sure you wanted additional input, but I agree that often folks miss the forest for the trees here. If you purchase an A+ system, very little is gained seeking the A++. There is definately a point of diminishing returns.
J

Hmm - I believe I just read a bit more oblique criticism of my stance on high pressure water feeding an open loop geo, if so, fair enough, points taken. I cheerfully admit that Eric's boots-on-the ground and underground experience greatly exceed mine.

However, the laws of physics and thermodynamics are strictly enforced and certain realities of efficiency and cost of operation merit discussion.

I agree with the premise of keeping things simple and seeking reasonable ROI. However I think that readers may gain from different perspectives and take away what best suits their needs and desires.

I hope that we can civilly agree to disagree about some matters and let others choose what they may.

No oblique criticism implied or intended. It is just that we as proffesionals do not see the forest for the trees sometimes and threads degenerate into discussions of achieving A++++, over A+. I tell customers all the time when they ask what would you do? You are not me. My sense of humor for tweaking a A+++++ system I created at my house at 4am is still pretty good. Your sense of humor is limited, so please go with reliable A+.
Thank you for the field recognition, and I will likewise say my tollerance for the higher education you achieved is very low. It has and does serve you well. Discussions prompt solutions but let's stay focused on the forrest.

The case in point involved spending a couple of hundred dollars to save a couple of hundred dollars *per year* in electricity. A far better ROI than almost everything else discussed here. IMO, installing a pump doesn't involve "moonbeams" and hundreds of dollars/year shouldn't be called "dutch nickels".   But others may disagree and of course they are free to say so.  Ideally they would do so without exaggeration.

I see many posters who come to this forum to explore new ideas and optimizations - crazy ideas like foam houses without furnaces and electric meters that spin backwards!. Everything that is now "safe, standard practice" was new, unproven and questionable at some point. So I don't think that discussion should be limited to conservative, simple, standard practices - but that's a philosophical point and I understand that others think differently.

I think we are on the same page - I remember waking up early (around 4 AM, now that you mention it...) one January morning 10+ years ago to a very very cold house. My McGyvered airsource / water source heat pump shone brilliant white in a flashlight's beam - iced up completely.

The solution was easy but counter-intuitive: switch the system to cooling for 10 minutes (house went from 48 to 46 or so) until the white ice went black and fell away, shortly therafter water flow resumed. Lesson learned, don't set ther thermostat back quite so much on cold nights.

That's a good example of my sense of humor greatly exceeding that of any customer paying good money for my services and expertise.

Hmmm, I didn't know we were picking on engineer..........ok, I'm in ;)
j

Waterpirate always sets the right tone, IMHO. Not condescending to us DIYers. I'm sitting here being warmed by my homemade GSHP, just like I have for the last 14 yrs. With better access to info. that we have now, there is no reason that smart, technically minded people can't build reliable systems without spending the multi thousands that I see mentioned here on every page. There should be a standard disclaimer and then good information given to people without the means to spend a year's income on their heating and cooling system.

The general information provided here should never be considered step by step directions for a DIYer for installing there own system.  While the advice is invalueable, further research is required to put any suggestions here into practice. 
 

Is that the standard disclaimer that I mentioned? If so, that's good. States the obvious without wasting too much time or effort.

AO,

If you are capable of safely deploying a home-made GSHP you are probably in a group comprised of about 100 per 100,000 folks. If you are whacko enough to actually do it and live with the results, you are in an even smaller group of about 1 in 100,000. The other 99 probably correctly determined that they have better things to do with their time, leaving just you and I.

There are good reasons why contracting to perform these projects requires licensure, adherence to codes, and inpections of work. The vast majority of folks haven't the foggiest notion how this all works, and foulups can be expensive at best, dangerous or fatal at worst. Lethal voltages and pressures lurk within system cabinets (my standard disclaimer)

If you have truly gone down the path and enjoyed the process, including the parts wherein good judgement derives from bad experience, then the next thing to do is get an HVAC contractor's license and hang out your shingle.

I'm a master electrician and worked in refrigeration for many years. I have no interest in a retail business. There isn't enough money to pay me to deal with the idiots out there. I have (in 14 yrs.) probably 100 hrs.and $4500 invested in my system. I heat and cool 2800sq.ft., all electric and my highest energy bill has been $110 for a month in Aug. when we had 6 guests for two weeks. You tell me if it was worth it. I checked my loop levels last week. The first time this year. My maintenance consists of changing the air filter every couple of months for the last 8 yrs.
If I'm only one if 100K, with a pop. of over 300,000,000 that still makes over 30,000 of us out there. Seems to me that's a good audience for a small website.

A little more background than the average DIY don't you think? Of the $4,500 you spent, how much was spent on equipment rental and fuel?
Let's hear more about your system, slngle stage R-22?
Did you really build it yourself, or just install it yourself?
Split or package system?
The reason I ask is, you present yourself as a Mcgyver who built a system from scratch and give the impression that a heat pump can be built for pennies on the dollar.
There is much talk today, about multistage R-410 systems, energy star ratings and tax credits. None of which your system qualifies as or for.
I say this not to disparage your efforts, in fact I applaud them. Just want to identify them for what they are.
A modern 2 stage R-410 heat pump can not be purchased in the box for what you spent, let alone ground loops, flow center, excavation equipment rental........
There's your long winded disclaimer.
j

Two systems. Original was used 2.5 ton Carrier air source split. I installed heat exchanger, 4x600' hor. loops at 8', taco circulating pump with suction head tank. All in 5ft. crawl space. I had a compressor failure in 2001 and replaced with new. Major cost was pipe, backhoe was cheap (as my neighbor has one).My sons came and helped and we had the loops done in a day. I got the split unit at a local auction because it was only a year old and looked little used.I forgot to include the price of ductwork in my cost. I had it done by a local company for $2000
Second system heats and cools 100sq.ft. garage. It's a Trane console. Local auctioneer had no idea what it was and I got it (new) for $25.
15K BTU. I just put in two 600 ft. hor. loops and and water pump. Since it was set up for process water, I had to change the LWT switch. It's been running without problem since 2000. Why would I need energy star or tax credits? I'm cheap but we don't freeze or sweat and my average energy bill (at .115 KWH) is $82, according to Entergy- our power company. My loop temps. seldom go below 50 deg. or above 80. This year we didn't use much AC so when I checked last week the loop temp. was only 65. I certainly don't consider myself Mcgiverish. I used quality components, researched before I started and had minimal problems at start up and only the compressor replaced since Aug. of 1995. I'm just saying that this is not brain surgery. If you have the $30K to spend, go for it and I'll applaud your good judgment. I don't think I'm crazy for keeping most of it in my pocket.

Thank you for your kind words.  I try to offer help to those who ask and save the retoric for beer laden discusions at proffessional gatherings.  I feel tha diy people should get sound advice within their comfort zone to get good positive geo results.  To this end I give advice on a sliding scale of "technical" to try and solve for "X".