I had this unit installed in my home- New Construction last year. Tranquility 27. It is the "upstairs Zone" unit. Last winter it kept warning "Low Water Temp". After MANY trips out by the installer the issue never seemed to get resolved. It was a harsh winter. The system went into Aux almost always. The installer ( who has been great and has installed many systems) tried replacing many parts and as the winter mellowed it became less a problem- UNTIL Summer!

Summer came and in Cooling mode there was "Hammering" sound in the wall where the refrigerant lines ran. They tried repressurizing the Geothermal Water Lines. Then they tried redoing the refrigerant. Then Climatemaster had the installer do many tasks including replacing everything in the unit. THEN the distributor came out with the installer. They took readings for an entire day and sent the information to the engineers. They finally determined that a WHOLE NEW SYSTEM would need to be installed! They installed a whole NEW SYSTEM! guess what, Hammering still in wall!

Oh then Winter has come, System is still in AUX mode! In reality this is technically the THIRD system! The First, The Rebuilt and the New one. This is a bad system! the other first floor unit works great (also a Climate Master). That one is all one unit. The two part Tranquility 27 just fails to work. Last week he put a new refrigerant line in from Basement unit to attic figuring it MUST have a kink or a nail in the wall! Still didn't work!!Then Today he though it MUST have some sort of sediment in the coil somewhere. He discharged the whole system, Blew it all out, Vacuumed it all , Sealed and refilled. STILL does not work! Clamate Master is baffled completely and so is my installer. My installer has actually paid more money out of pocket to try to get it right!

Today he took many many more readings, photos, logs and after a year I still have a terrible system that obviously should not even be on the market! They will need to replace this with a different model because this one just DONT WORK!! My electric bills last winter were upwards to 6-700 a month for Geothermal!! :-(

I had the same CM equipment - Tranquility 27 split - installed October 2013. My installation was less than stellar. However, thanks to the dedication of the service folks and the outstanding advice given here, I've been able to greatly improve my situation. I guess it's possible for some units to be unrepairable, but I don't think the model should be condemned. For example, some factory wiring inside the air handler was switched, causing the fan to run constantly. This affected numerous customers, according to my contractor. Maybe the problem is centered around a certain manufacturing period?

Yes I have many split systems in service and have not seen the trouble you are mentioning so I suspect it's specific to the installation. It sounds like you hired a good company and I expect they will get it right, but I'm sure it is frustrating at this point. Are they not getting proper pressures?

I purchased a Climate Master 5 ton heat pump in 1994. I use my well for a heat source. I live in New Brunswick, Canada where we get down to 30-40 F below occasionally in the winter. I have a log home that gets warm in the summer so enjoy the cooling AC in the summer. My first heat pump lasted 19 years with only the compressor replaced after the first 5 or so. Very happy as it just chugged along for 19 years. Had some problems 2 years ago with no heat and service person replaced flow valve. Came home from 2 week vacation to find water flowing thru heat pump but no heat!!! Ran water for at least 2 weeks straight with no heat. House was 58F but have 2 pellet burners and electric baseboards and radiant in ceilings for back up so warmed up place easily overnite. Obviously my original flow valve turned out to not be the problem. Problem is very few service people know much about water source heat pumps. They came back and said my coil was bad after trying to solder it and told me I needed a new one. 1100 bucks for a new one. Time for a new heat pump. I spent months looking for prices on a new Climate master Tranquility 27 5 ton heat pump. No one could give me a price or info. I called all over Eastern and Central Canada and Maine to get prices AND COULD NOT believe the lack of responses - I was willing to part with a large sum of money and no one could help me spend it. Prices for installing a new 5 ton Bosch heat pump were $14,000 which I felt was a little expensive. I eventually found a supplier over the internet in Paducah, Kansas where I bought a 5 ton CM with a variable speed compressor and fan plus a water pre heater for 7100 with free shipping to northern Maine -5 miles from where I live in Canada. After another month found a guy who had installed tons of water source heat pumps who hooked it up. Previously I had a friend help me remove the old heat pump and place the new one in the basement. Had the local furnace guys hook up the new duct work. Local electrician wired the heat pump. My service person had to rewire some stuff and got the thing running. Only problem is with the water flow. Had to put in a bigger type of water pump for more water flow as we needed 10 gallons a minute. The new HP apparently needed a water filter so we put on a German made filter which you can clean every 2-3 weeks by turning the bottom shaft and drain some crap out of the filter. I can by pass the filter with my plumbing set up. I have pressure and temp gauges on inflow and outflow pipes and when I run the water thru the filter I lose pressure by about 30%. Problem is when pressure lessens the heat pump will sometimes shut off as a self protection mechanism which is good. Usually just turn off pump and wait an half hour as HP has a certain amount of time before it will come back on. Old HP had no filter for 19 years and worked forever but new one needs filter to keep crap out of it. Pain in the arse. If I thought new one would run 19 years I would continually by pass filter. Any suggestions about the type of easy to maintain/clean filters?? My flow valve is made by Rain Bird and is acting funny sometimes as it won't open and /or close when it is supposed to. Any suggestions for another brand of flow valve?? One inch inflow/outflow size. Interesting reading all the comments above as I have learned a lot and am glad I am having good luck with my pump. If you have a good technician you are fortunate because they are not all created equal. The guy who hooked mine up is now on the other side of the country but he sure knew his stuff. Thanks for the site!!

Turns out after all this time , the compressor itself that is installed in these heat pumps for a certain window of time came to the plant with a certain defect. The defect is that the compressor is filled with a certain oil that connects into the refrigerant loop. The oil was defective in that it gooped up the valves that open and close! There is an additive that can be shot into the refrigerant line that permanently fixes it! It actually fixed the problem!

Dkdocterry. Glad things went well for you. As a rule of thumb, if you need a filter then you probably shouldn't be open loop. If you have a Tranquility 27 it should be fine without a filter if the old one was.

JD I just recieved the bulletin on the very problem you mentioned. Glad to hear you are up and running.

Thank you Joe for the response. The filter is a pain but the first heat pump lasted 19 years without a filter. Next question tho is about cleaning my unit since I have been told using a well can cause deposits from the water inside the lines and they (technicians ) can use chemicals to clean it out ?? Your comments about doing this would be appreciated. Thanks Terry

Hi Dkdocterry

Homeowner here - not a pro - so do trust their advice over mine.

I've found that the irrigation flow valves on the shelf at Home Hardware or Home Depot work quite reliably, and are very inexpensive.

We have a bit of sand in our water, so I use a Rusco spin-down sediment filter with a stainless steel screen that I have to clean out about once every three to four weeks. It isn't a terribly sophisticated solution, but it works nicely. What's the German-made filter product that you're using? A 30% pressure drop through the filter seems rather excessive!

If you have hard water that causes scaling on your tea kettle or faucets and plumbing fixtures, yes, your heat pump may need to be periodically de-scaled with a mild acid, just like your kettle. For my tea kettle I use vinegar, and on my plumbing fixtures I use CLR, but for my heat pump I use this stuff that your local EMCO or Wolseley should carry:
http://www.nucalgon.com/products/water-filtration-maintenance/nickel-safe
(poured into a 5 gal bucket of warm water and circulated through the water in and water out ports on the heat pump using a small submersible pump in the bucket)

Thanks for the reply. Had the old pump cleaned out a few times but never found out what they used. I will attach a picture of my German filter if I can.

When they flushed the old system was that part of regular maintenence or because of trouble with the system? I think they hype about extra maintenence with open loop is too general. It does not occur everywhere. In our area depite heavy iron content in many wells, systems have gone 20 years without flushing though we do have build up in drains down stream of solenoids where hardness is not kept suspended by pressure.

I just thought we should clean out the lines in the heat pump. My wife has taken the flow valve apart and cleaned that and there was some crap in it. Our water has some hardness but first system lasted 19 years and then copper coil got a leak and it was time to replace.

Posted By JDExtonPa on 25 Jan 2015 08:39 PM
Turns out after all this time , the compressor itself that is installed in these heat pumps for a certain window of time came to the plant with a certain defect. The defect is that the compressor is filled with a certain oil that connects into the refrigerant loop. The oil was defective in that it gooped up the valves that open and close! There is an additive that can be shot into the refrigerant line that permanently fixes it! It actually fixed the problem!

I just thought I would add to this discussion after having our system serviced today. We had a Climatemaster TE 30 5-ton installed last summer. Over the past month with the deeper winter cold, AUX heat was coming on way more than we thought it should be and locking out constantly. After a bit of a go-around with the installer and providing data from our monitoring system, he mentioned the service bulletin that described the issues with gummed up TXV valves. They put in the additive today and after running a few hours it is quite evident that the system it running much better than it was before. Long runs supplying heat, EWT lower than it has gone before and no lockouts yet. Just my 2 cents. Hope it can help someone else.

Yes, same problem. In my case the thermostat would show a fault ( low water temperature) and yes went into AUX almost instantly. My guy came back like twenty times until Climate master FINALLY found the compressor bulletin! That stuff he put into refrigerant line fixed it. It would also in AC MODE make a hammering sound in the wall! This was the heart of the problem- the compressor had bad gas from factory!

I have to say- my bills are still awfully high though. :-/

Posted By wjmuseler on 15 Mar 2014 11:00 AM

I am familiar with Copeland scroll compressors in my profession and have a high regard for their performance and longevity.  Have either of you known of a Copeland service bulletin regarding failures? 

The following links discuss issues with Copeland scroll compressors that can and do result in failures of the system:

http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-us...-28-14.pdf

http://www.reddit.com/r/HVAC/commen...ny_brands/

http://www.fhp-mfg.com/files/downlo...ng_TXV.pdf

The following is an interesting, at least to me, discussion on Copeland scroll compressor failure:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread...r-failures

Of particular note in the above link is how a poorly designed or maintained duct/filter system can result in insufficient airflow across the air coil and lead to early failure of the compressor.

Hello All, First off, thank you to all of the active members of the board who are on here helping others long after the people who they help are gone. Thanks! In short, I have been having trouble with my Climate Master Tranquility 27 since it was installed in late 2010. I am on a break-down cycle of two service calls per year since it was installed. I would love to be able to talk to member VBTONY as I feel my attempts to get satisfaction are very much like his and it would be nice to know who he talked with to get solution to his problems. I would love for Climate Master to contact me. I would prefer to talk to them directly before I "air dirty laundry" on a public forum. If you are a contact person with Climate Master please contact me. If you know a contact person please let me know. Thank you! Brian

Brian - I would suggest clicking the envelope icon under VBTONY's name in his last post to email him. It's been 4 years since he wrote here.

While not interested in "dirty laundry". Myself and others here have spent hours trying to assisst when people have geo trouble.
We often find it is the fault of the installer not the manufacturer. Perhaps if you identified the problems (vs simply quantified) we could offer some ideas.

I am a Climatemaster dealer. Climatemaster is amongst the largest seller of geo heat pumps in North America. I've yet to see a problem that could not have easily been avoided or remedied with a competent design or repair.

I wouldn't focus on CM or expect them to contact you.

[quote]
Posted By joe.ami on 16 May 2015 10:15 AM

I wouldn't focus on CM or expect them to contact you.
[/quote]

This type of customer service is NOT acceptable and precisely why I suggest consumers look elsewhere if they are interested in geothermal.

Popfizz,
nor would Bosch or WF contact a homeowner. You can find long angry threads about these brands as well (there are some lower profile brands that you will find less ire and less praise for). Ultimately the contractor is their customer. They will speak with the contractor.

It is also fair for me to say you quoted me out of context which offerd to help, suggested usually problems occur in the field not in assembly at the plant and that I've not seen a problem without a remedy.

IMO the customer service that is not acceptable is the service received from the boots on the ground that have frustrated Brian so much that he thinks a manufacturer in OK is the best bet for satisfaction.

In the Dallas area at least, for at the big 2 or 3:

1. It's the Distributor who is contractually responsible for warranty repair, training installing dealers, and providing technical support to installers.

2. The manufacturer won't communicate with anyone other than the Distributor, generally.

3. The Distributor generally won't speak to the end customer, even though it's the Distributor who holds the warranty.

4.  The quality of a GSHP implementation is determined by the quality of the equipment, the quality of field implementation design, and the quality of field installation.  Generally the manufacturer has in effect half or less of the opportunity to impact quality of implementation.  The manufacturer knows this and hence these 'operating rules.'

5.  In almost all cases where there are operating problems, the problem lies with the quality of the field implementation design and/or the quality of field installation.  Long term borehole field overheating, for example, is a huge problem here in the Dallas area.

Until this customer support model changes, GSHP, IMO, will always be a niche market product.

Best regards,

Bill