What do I need to know about this product and its setup. What sensors would you recommend and how to install them?
Our customer wants to monitor these items

Total power consumption
Water Heater temperatures
EWT and LWT temperatures

Anything else that might be nice to have? I have been wanting to do one of these for a while but haven't had a customer that was into it like me and its hard to want to spend $$$ on a customers job to monitor when the customer doesn't even care to watch and monitor and keep the server going.

System will be a horizontal bore with eight 125' bore holes. WaterFurnace NDZ038 dual stage split system with desuperheater. I will be taking videos and adding it to my YouTube channel once the job is complete. We are having the directional driller start on Monday the 26th with our estimated completion that Friday.
http://www.welserver.com/WEL0626/

Doc has been a big help to me in that regard. We are working on 6 units on a central pond loop that we hope to have up soon as the smart house guys let us at the net.

Posted By SkyHeating on 14 Mar 2012 10:52 AM
What do I need to know about this product and its setup. What sensors would you recommend and how to install them?
Our customer wants to monitor these items

Total power consumption
Water Heater temperatures
EWT and LWT temperatures

Anything else that might be nice to have? I have been wanting to do one of these for a while but haven't had a customer that was into it like me and its hard to want to spend $$$ on a customers job to monitor when the customer doesn't even care to watch and monitor and keep the server going.

...

It's really very straight forward, and ideal for someone who wants to save money on operating and maintenance costs.

Product description is here: Web Energy Logger

Example implementations are here: Examples.  Doc's implementations are part of these examples.  He can give you his WEL numbers.


For the 3 things you list that you want to monitor, you'll need to purchase:

a. WEL + Case + Power Supply ($410)

b. WNB-3Y-208-P 300 Hz Option Advanced Pulse WattNode from Continental Controls ($198 + $18)

c. CTS-0750 Split-Core Current Transformers from Continental Controls ($45 X 2)  *Can use less expensive CTT-0750 solid-core current transformers that are slightly more accurate if willing to disconnect/reconnect wires.

d. Temp sensors for in and out water heater pipes and EWT/LWT temperatures ($15 x 4)


Everything else is included, including a web site, data logging as fast as once per minute, data storage, and a means to display information to a web picture and to web charts.  No recurring monthly charges.  One alarm capability included.


Additional items I recommend to suggest to customer:

1. Temp sensor on refrigerant discharge from compressor copper pipe ($15).  Easily illustrates if a refrigerant leak has started well before system shutdown and/or compressor damage occurs.

2. Outside temp sensor for general observation and to track Degree Days ($15).


Overall project steps include:

0. Design steps to include determining current transformer size (amperage and wire hole sizes) appropriate for what's to be measured.

1. Connect WEL to Internet and verify all working fine.

2. Install WattNode and current transformers at circuit breaker box.  Run CAT3 cable from WattNode to WEL.  Verify power information.

3. Install temp sensors on various pipes.  Run CAT5 cable from WEL to each sensor in daisy chain fashion (star topology).  Verify temperature information.

4. Create real time Web charts using WEL configuration screens.

5. Create picture file for displaying real time information on Web page.


BTW, I would charge the customer for the monitoring.

Hope this is a good start.  Good luck!

Best regards,

Bill

The "quite simple" explanation is never followed by 1 paragraph

http://www.greenenergyresearch.com/DIY_ph_pages/DIY_ph_3502.html?product_id=3502



http://welserver.com/WEL0478/




Here is my list.
The important parameters for me are EWT, LWT, Load in and out (either water, supply and return air, or refrigerant if a split system), inside and outside temperature, DSH in and out, buffer tank and final tank for DHW.
All are stainless steel tip sensors with the exception of indoor temp (Plastic Encapulasted Temperature Sensor, lets air on the sensor and reacts quicker) and outside (Potted Temperature Sensor, is easy to push through a small hole).
We use an amp sensor for whole heatpump and a separate amp sensor for the aux heat for cost reasons, the wattsmeter is too expensive and the amp sensors work within 2% of the wattsmeter, or vice versa. The above link shows you where you can buy them for about $35. We actually have a system with both just for accuracy comparison. http://welserver.com/WEL0396/

The only other thing we use is the combo module which monitors the thermostat signal, so you know 1st, 2nd, aux, fan and reversing valve (A/C), and can count the run times. WEL 478 above is everything we found useful to display.
Customers want to know if it heats the house at a certain outside temperature (inside and outside temperature) and how much does it cost to run (amp sensor). Everything else is secondary. I certainly want to know runtimes, buffertank EWT and LWT etc.


Things like COP, heat extraction etc are down on the list...

So what I am reading is
WEL Server plus 8 stainless sensors and 2 plastic sensors
And then one or two of the 50 amp sensors from the link above? I am just the salesperson/owner of the company so I am not very good when it comes to electrical specs/installation, I am better at explaining the difference between features and benefits lol.

That should give me monitors for EWT/LWT, desuperheater, inside temp, outside temp and amps used by ground source unit right?

Posted By SkyHeating on 16 Mar 2012 02:01 PM
So what I am reading is
WEL Server plus 8 stainless sensors and 2 plastic sensors
And then one or two of the 50 amp sensors from the link above? I am just the salesperson/owner of the company so I am not very good when it comes to electrical specs/installation, I am better at explaining the difference between features and benefits lol.

That should give me monitors for EWT/LWT, desuperheater, inside temp, outside temp and amps used by ground source unit right?

Here's your parts list that satisfies your initial requirements list:

(1) WEL unit ($410, includes case and power supply)
(1) Amp sensor ($35, prefered by Doc) - geo unit's total power (but won't include aux heat's power if geo is equipped with it)
(4) SS Temp sensors ($15 ea) - DHW In (Buffer Tank Out), DHW Out, EWT, LWT temps

Here's your suplemental parts list for Doc's additional recommendations:

(1) Amp sensor ($35, prefered by Doc) - geo unit's aux heat power
(?) SS Temp sensors ($15 ea) - Load In (water, rtn air, refrig if split sys), Load Out (water, rtn air, refrig if split sys) DSH In (Buffer Tank Out), DSH Out (Buffer Tank In) temps
(2) Potted Temp sensors ($12) - Inside Ambient, Outside Ambient temps
(1) 8-Ch TStat Input Module ($95, includes box) - provides status and time for 1st Stage, 2nd Stage, Aux Heat Stage, Fan, Reversing Valve

Here's your supplemental parts list for Bill's additional recommendations:

(1) SS Temp sensor ($15) - Compressor discharge refrigerant temp

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Bill

looks very complete

Thank you all very much, I hopefully will have a WEL server in my signature line in less than a month!

WEL Server is online, I am not sure if my tech/customer hooked up everything properly or maybe they just mislabeled the picture because we are not measuring supply and return temp, it's supposed to be inside and outside temp.

http://www.welserver.com/WEL0626/

Let me know if I should change/adjust everything. I have sadly not had a chance to see the unit setup cause I am on vacation until the 9th.

Posted By SkyHeating on 04 Apr 2012 10:59 PM
WEL Server is online, I am not sure if my tech/customer hooked up everything properly or maybe they just mislabeled the picture because we are not measuring supply and return temp, it's supposed to be inside and outside temp.

http://www.welserver.com/WEL0626/

Let me know if I should change/adjust everything. I have sadly not had a chance to see the unit setup cause I am on vacation until the 9th.

Your customer contacted me via email last week, we looked things over, and all in general looked fine.  There's a learning curve to come down, and it looked to me like what's out at WEL0626 is an excellent start for someone unfamiliar with monitoring tools until now.

http://www.welserver.com/WEL0626/

I can't tell what's being measured yet.  The orange numbers look to be real time measurements, the green numbers look to be either sample-and-hold numbers or max/min numbers, all in an attempt to show last state operating conditions.  (I do it via sample-and-hold.)

I would recommend shortening up the display width of the charts, to say 1000 pixels.  That way scrolling isn't required to observe the charts.

And I'd recommend enhancing the chart legends for what's being shown.  I'm not always sure what I'm looking at.

Don't forget that you can access and configure WEL units remotely - i.e. everything you can do being connected to a WEL via its LAN you can do to a WEL being connected to its WAN.  You'll need to know your customer's WEL password (so that you can get to the Setup Overview web page and then just click-connect to the WEL).  Prior to doing this your customer will need to set up Port Forwarding on his/her router for the WEL's port forwarding address (typically 5150).  I support a number of WEL units, and do this by connecting to them remotely just as I describe here.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks Bill, I had my first chance to log into the WEL yesterday and see the backend of the system. The customer has some pretty specific functions and gave me a good tutorial on them. I am hoping to put a few more in houses to get some more installs in the Portland OR area since we are the first.

You're welcome.  It's been my experience that it's an iterative process.  As one comes down the learning curve, it becomes increasingly obvious how to do things that weren't so obvious at first.  There's a lot of power 'under the hood' (i.e. just finished an effort to compute Power Factor from reactive and real power pulse streams into the WEL, using the WEL's SQRT function, for example; works great).

Holler if there's something you or your customer specifically want to accomplish but aren't quite sure how to go about doing it.  There's a pretty good chance that those of us here who have a good amount of experience with the WEL can help.

Best regards,

Bill

BTW, your customer contacted me again this evening, asking me for my configuration screens to learn from.  I gladly sent them to him, and, asked him to ask questions here in this forum so that all can learn.

Best regards,

Bill

Posted By a0128958 on 12 Apr 2012 08:48 PM
BTW, your customer contacted me again this evening, asking me for my configuration screens to learn from.  I gladly sent them to him, and, asked him to ask questions here in this forum so that all can learn.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks for all the help, I hope to put more online soon.