Can you use your Artesian well as your vertical loop system?
Last Post 20 Nov 2012 10:25 AM by joe.ami. 12 Replies.
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robert.thompsonUser is Offline
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26 Oct 2012 11:20 AM
Hello: If you have to drill an artesian well for your water supply, can this well double as your vertical loop in a geothermal heating system? Thanks,
Rob. http://googlevoiceforcanadians.com/
DickRussellUser is Offline
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26 Oct 2012 11:37 AM
Yes, that is possible. That is my configuration, Standing Column Well, although if the well provides sufficient flow and local regulations permit you can do a "pump and dump" system. You do need adequate water quality for use with a heat pump, and the mfg specs for their unit will spell this out. In the northeast (i'm in NH), water quality usually is of good quality. Where are you, and is this installation for a new house? If so, we encourage you to put your first money into a very tight and well insulated house, to reduce the heating/cooling loads, before looking for a cheap way to provide energy for it. That also makes the system (whatever it turns out to be) much smaller and less expensive to operate. In the case of GSHP, the ground connection (water well in your case) becomes smaller also. In my case, the depth of well needed for adequate supply for the house turned out to support more tonnage than the heat pump ultimately installed, so extra drilling was not needed.
robert.thompsonUser is Offline
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26 Oct 2012 11:49 AM
Yes, this is a new house to be built Spring 2013 90 miles north of Montreal, QC, Canada. It will be a single-story 26 x 36 foot house built on bedrock with an uneven crawl-space ranging from 1 foot to 60 inches of headroom. Only about 10% of it will be 60 inches. Rob.
Rob. http://googlevoiceforcanadians.com/
noobooUser is Offline
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26 Oct 2012 07:20 PM
Posted By robert.thompson on 26 Oct 2012 11:49 AM
from 1 foot to 60 inches of headroom.


The area with 1' of headroom is not a good space, unless you are a rodent...
My guess is there is a blasting contractor somewhere who could level out your footprint, build a slab-on grade-walkout-to-daylight floor, use icfs, put heat and insulation in-floor, and allow enough room for a drain on the hillside, well below the finish grade floor.
It would cost more, but, what is the saying?
The bitterness of quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten...
robert.thompsonUser is Offline
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18 Nov 2012 12:51 PM
So, I got a quote: $13,000 + about $4,000 for duct work using my well for a single floor 1200 sq ft house, with an un-insulated crawl space. Projected annual electric bill of $370.00 for heating & cooling. Ceiling R-80, walls R-34, floor R-30. Projected heating & cooling without a geothermic furnace: $1,750 per year. So, $17,000 / ($1,750 - $370) = 12.3 year pay back - I'll probably be dead and buried by then!
Rob. http://googlevoiceforcanadians.com/
gonegeoUser is Offline
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18 Nov 2012 03:01 PM
You can and we do deduct the cost of the traditional fossil fuel system in the return calculation because you would have spent at least this amount anyway on a heating and cooling system and still have the $1750/yr to pay. If it is an existing system, you have replacement costs to use in the calculation if it is near end of life.
www.energysquid.com "Dirt Cheap Energy for Life"
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19 Nov 2012 08:23 AM
Since this is new construction, there is no reason not to look really hard at a sealed and insulated crawl space. Take a look at posts in the general residential forums for sealed crawl space.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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19 Nov 2012 08:24 AM
You weren't going to use ducts with any other system? Why would you assign that to the cost of pay back. A conventional furnace and maybe AC weren't going to cost you money?
Payback is the cost difference between geo and other equipment o if you weren't going to get AC and a furnace is around $3,000 then your cost difference is $10,000 or about a 6 year payback (if no tax credists or rebates are available).
An artesian well or any well (open loop) works fine but they are not permitted everywhere.

Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
robert.thompsonUser is Offline
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20 Nov 2012 09:20 AM
Ok.

$17,000 - $1,890 (7 @ 750 watt baseboard heaters) = $15,110 /($1,750 - $370) = 11 year pay back.

Too much money for a 1,200 sf retirement house.

Probably better off upgrading insulation and/or windows.
Rob. http://googlevoiceforcanadians.com/
joe.amiUser is Offline
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20 Nov 2012 09:47 AM
no argument there.
no cooling?
Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
joe.amiUser is Offline
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20 Nov 2012 10:02 AM
I only ask as you mentioned cooling before. No rebates or tax credits.
Many times we have suggested to folks that geo wasn't good fit for their project. You may be one of those occasions.

We do however try to employ fair comparisons.
Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
robert.thompsonUser is Offline
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20 Nov 2012 10:21 AM
You are right, again.

I only included 'cooling' in the first place because the $17,000 quote & annual costs included it - the house is in a the country, on a heavily wooded lot, so I don't really need A/C.

But cost of cooling was included in the $1,750 as well.

So, in the spirit of 'fairness' (aka: apples & oranges):

$17,000 - $3,690 (7 @ 750 watt baseboard heaters + 4 @ 10,000 BTU Air Conditioners) = $13,310 /($1,750 - $370) = 9.6 year pay back.
Rob. http://googlevoiceforcanadians.com/
joe.amiUser is Offline
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20 Nov 2012 10:25 AM
I'm inclined to agree that extra dollars on envelope improvements likely is the way to go.
With no cooling and a heat bill south of $1,000 you are doing pretty good.
Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
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