Running geothermal system killing hot water heater temperature
Last Post 03 Nov 2014 11:08 AM by newbostonconst. 51 Replies.
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mngeotherm1User is Offline
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04 Oct 2014 02:41 PM
Another thought occured to me today. The geothermal system is not running for very long or often. Is it possible that the DSH is not getting hot enough and it is sending luke warm water to the HWH instead of hot water and thus cooling the HWH down?
joe.amiUser is Offline
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05 Oct 2014 10:33 AM
the numbers as presented are confusing. Are you saying 61 in and 74 out?
Joe Hardin
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mngeotherm1User is Offline
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05 Oct 2014 12:07 PM
Hi Joe, that particular reading was 61 out and 74 in, so it was obviously taking hot water from the HWH.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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07 Oct 2014 09:11 AM
appears so, but you have self admitedly unreliable instruments. There is really not much to say that hasn't been said. Do not close any valves that isolate the DSH. Get your service company out.
Joe Hardin
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Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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08 Oct 2014 08:10 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 07 Oct 2014 09:11 AM
... Do not close any valves that isolate the DSH ...   
without first pulling out the in-line fuse to the DSH water pump that's inside the GSHP unit.  This will prevent the pump from unintentionally running dry.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
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(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 08:20 AM
"without first pulling out the in-line fuse to the DSH water pump that's inside the GSHP unit."

No, don't do it at all. The DSH makes hot water whether you pump it or not. If you then close the throttling valves you have a source of heat on a sealed vessel of water.....not a good plan.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 04:33 PM
Are you sure?

For WaterFurnace units there's even a slide switch on the front of units for the purpose of turning on/off the DSH pump. The in-line fuse is in series with the switch. Removing the fuse simply helps to avoid otherwise accidently turning on the DSH water loop pump 'dry.'

Maybe your caution is needed for other manufacturers?

Best regards,

Bill

Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
engineerUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 09:23 PM
Bill - you are focusing only on the pump. Joe is concerned at blocking in the DSH coax while hot refrigerant can still flow through it, which happens whenever the compressor runs. While boiling is unlikely, heated water is both incompressible and inexorably expands...something has to give.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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10 Oct 2014 09:59 AM
This is why I encourage a T/P valve between the stops (on the DSH side) invariably someone wants to shut those valves. While I don't expect a catastophe, expensive damage to the system or injury is not out of the question.

This is not manufacturer specific.

Bill is correct that you also want to ensure the dsh circ. pump is turned off to avoid damage to it.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
riggerjackUser is Offline
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30 Oct 2014 09:22 PM
I'm no gshp expert, I'm just doing my due diligence before install. But I had the same problem, with a different system, that may shed light, or be completely useless, you decide.

My utility room is on one side of the house, the kitchen and a bathroom on the other, so I decided to install a circulation pump. These things come with temperature sensitive valve that can be installed at the far faucet, creating a loop to feed hot water into the cold line. The end result is a tepid cold, and faster access to hot water. The problem is that valve fails, a lot from online reviews, so I just ran a separate hot line back to the water heater. It worked great, but the hot water in the far shower never got as hot as it should. I wracked my brain on this for a few weeks, and eventually figured it out.
I had inadvertently piped a possible route for cold water to bypass the water heater, back feed up my hot return loop, and mix with the hot coming the other way at the hot water pipe of the shower. This sounds to me like the problem the OP has. Is it possible, that the single tank design allows cold water to route through the tank and mix with the hot, bypassing the DWH heating elements? That this issue is more a plumbing issue than a GSHP issue?
I don't know, but thought it worth mentioning. Cold water is supposed to enter the tank piped to the bottom, and pass at least one element as cold water displaces hot as the hot gets used. If the GSHP DSH is plumbed in a way that allows cold to flow through the DSH and out the hot water pipe, it would cause this.
SkyHeatingUser is Offline
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01 Nov 2014 10:14 PM
One tank is the issue, the Envision can't heat water beyond 130 degrees so it could be robbing heat, you need two tanks, one unpowered storage tank with 50 gallons and then your 85 gallon marathon tank.

Hell if you want to get crazy get a 50 gallon marathon storage tank so you have two tanks with lifetime warranties and the highest efficiency.

Your installer should also look at the NSW018 and NSW025 dedicated water heating systems(shown in the 7, 5 and 3 series brochures) thats almost all we do anymore, we rarely install desuperheaters. In my house I am putting a 3 ton 7 series with a NSW025 for domestic water heating.
Visit my Youtube channel for product reviews and customer testimonials http://www.youtube.com/user/skyheating1
http://www.welserver.com/WEL0626/
newbostonconstUser is Offline
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03 Nov 2014 11:08 AM
Reply to mngeotherm1 Ir guns have two problems. One is the laser dot does not measure the temperature of objects. The sensor fans out immediately leaving the gun, which is fine for large objects, but doesn't work for small objects. You have to have the gun right on top of small objects, otherwise you will be reading an average of the back ground temps and the object. Laser is just for giving you a rough location of where you shooting it. Problem two is that the objects have to give off ir radiation....mirrors give off almost zero ir, and mirror like metals give off little. If you want to measure that type stuff then paint it black or put black tape on it....
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins
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