Ecobee Thermostats
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Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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19 Oct 2013 11:21 PM
For a few years I've been watching the tstat market for what's available that can be installed into a multi-tstat environment (I.e., residential air zoned systems, church structures, retail, and light commercial), taking into account ease of installation, reliability and ability for central/remote control/monitoring.

At the urging of Joe, in another thread last week, I checked out what's happening with Ecobee tstats.  I'm starting this thread to discuss my findings.

Back in the early 90s, with a 5 zone air distribution system, I was using 'plain jane' programmable tstats and managing the schedules at each individual tstat.  With these tstats, the only means of getting any information, or doing any control, was via standing right in front of each one.

In the mid-90s I changed to Enerstat tstats.  These were very modern looking, with a very minimalistic look, and, most importantly, they offered connectivity to a central computer via a serial RS485 network.  All control and readings were available via the network.  The tstats were ultra reliable, and they ended up becoming the defacto standard for the big commercial automation companies like AMX and Crestron. 

For many years I ran the Enerstat tstats integrated in with a dedicated automation processor and a fire alarm panel.  Set point temps were automatically managed based on room occupancy sensors, and open door and window sensors.  Manual set point changes were automatically restored.  Schedule and other configuration were all managed centrally at a computer.  And tstat settings /room temps / RH were all displayed on an unused TV channel.
 
In the early 2000s Aprilaire bought the rights to the Enerstat tstats and developed their own version.  Aprilaire asked me to do the residential field testing for their 8870 Communicating Thermostat.  The 8870s worked fine, and had a few more 'bells & whistles' than what the Enerstat tstats did (i.e. a light sensor at each tstat that was usable for automation purposes).  All in all, these too were very reliable, and companies like AMX and Crestron continued with the tstats.

In 3Q07 I put in geo.  Significant here was that I had to remove the Aprilaire communicating tstats because the geo installer was unwilling to accept anything other than WaterFurnace supplied tstats.  So I gave up communication capabilities and returned to configuring/maintaining each tstat individually, with appropriate schedules, max/min heat/cool settings, etc.

The WF supplied tstats were sourced from White-Rodgers ('Big Blue' series, model 1F95-1271).  They came with a 5 year warranty, but also with commercial 'rules of engagement' (for repair or replacement, no opportunity for direct factory support - required to work with a dealer, or just throw away).  Overall, good tstats, although one failed after 1 year, and another one is showing signs of failure now. 

Two years ago I looked at Nest.  While now they may have their problems fixed, early on they had a lot of WiFi connectivity problems.  Plus, I was never enamored with their 'power stealing' 4 wire interface design strategy.  And I wasn't too keen on a programming design based on movement, especially when I've got 4 tstats to manage (changed from 5 to 4 zone air distribution with geo).  Lastly, you only get a one year warranty.

Last year I upgraded the tstats to an advanced WR version (still 'Big Blue' series, model 1F95-1291).  These tstats added support for power via either a 'C'ommon wire or via 'power stealing' (switch selectable), along with extensive control for humidity:  internal RH sensor, displays RH, humidifier/dehum on/off control directly at tstat (without requiring an Equipment Interface box), and can automatically adjust cooling setpoints.  The automatic setpoint adjustment enabled a very nice energy efficiency improvement - as rooms get more dry the cooling set temp point is automatically raised (and visa versa).

This year Honeywell came out with its offering that's supposed to directly compete with Next.  Can't remember why I passed on considering using these.  Warranty was surely one reason (just one year), maybe price was too, and maybe feature set was too (in fact don't know if it even comes as a 2 stage heatpump model).

I think I ended up concluding that Honeywell's Nest competitor was simply a consumer versioned Prestige (?).  So I looked too at Honeywell's more advanced residential and commercial offering (Prestige IAQ?).  I think I remember that these require a gateway unit (Redbox?), an EI box, and of course the tstat itself.  At least here Honeywell offers a 4-wire max conductors needed strategy (to the tstat) while simultaneously avoiding using a power stealing design.

With the Honeywell Prestige IAQ looking complex and expensive, I ended up not doing anything.

Then Joe, who is one of the most learned contributors here at this forum, comes along and says he's using Ecobee.  I thought if it's good enough for Joe it's worth a very careful look.

I looked over the Ecobee documentation, and concluded there was good possibility these tstats could serve for multiple tstat implementations in a structure, without having to purchase an energy management system at $20-30K cost.  Plus, there's monitoring and control from any Internet browser, some amount of automation capability, there's a nice smart phone app, and there's some amount of data collection.  And on the commercial version side of the tstats multiple tstats appear to be controllable without having to access each one individually.

So, I proceeded to procure 4 Ecobee tstats.  All 4 are the commercial version since I really want to understand how I might eliminate the need for WEL units for complex implementations.

My first Ecobee came in today.  It's installed, works fine, and the Internet browser access works fine, as does my iPhone interface.

The Ecobee I installed is the EMSSI version - it's not a touch screen interface, doesn't require an EI box located at the HVAC unit (but does require a 'C'ommon wire for power).  But it does have all of the feature set, and, the Internet browser capability is unchanged.

I'm quickly concluding that there's little need for the much more expensive touchscreen model since all capability (except RH control) remains in the EMSSI version.

There's a separate from heat pump equipment configuration setting that's specifically for geo units - don't know what it's for, yet.

I like the no monthly fees philosophy from Ecobee - just like the WEL. 

Once I figure out how to configure a public access into the portal I'll make this available to anyone who wants to look at what's going on.

I've got the second tstat purchased and should arrive shortly.  I'll order the remaining two via Ecobee's program that offers max 2 for evaluation purposes.

More later.

Best regards,

Bill
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20 Oct 2013 09:01 AM
I will look forward to hearing more about EcoBees. At Joe's urging I checked into them awhile back. I don't have a lot of clients asking for WiFi stats yet.

As a side note, you mentioned modulating room temperature setpoint as a function of RH. That's OK, better than nothing. A better way dynamically reduces CFM per ton in cooling mode in response to RH being above setpoint. That raises air side delta-T and shifts the systems sensible heat ratio in favor of latent capacity. Bringing CFM per ton back up when RH is within bounds is important for efficiency.

This has been a standard feature of many variable speed air handlers (Trane, Carrier, Goodman) for many years. WF, and to my knowledge, CM, have not offered that for geo systems, and none of the 3rd party zoning systems I've checked into have it as well. WaterFurnace has finally gotten 'round to it with their Aurora controls.

On all but the most basic air source systems (the lion's share of my business, unfortunately), we install a Honeywell 8000 series stat with an extra conductor to the dehu input of the air handler. Clients like it.

It will be interesting to learn if Ecobee supports this feature in compatible systems.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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20 Oct 2013 11:26 AM
Some features I would like:

1) based on forecast (temp, perhaps solar gain), start change of high mass radiators (like a hydronic slab) early.

2) start/stop setback based on expected heat up/cool down rate (it changes with outdoor temp)

3) adjust temperature to account for cold walls. Ie, for equal comfort, you need a higher indoor temp when it is 0F outside than 50F outside.

4) Provide an "open/close the windows" indicator when it makes sense energy wise.

Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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20 Oct 2013 11:52 AM
Posted By engineer on 20 Oct 2013 09:01 AM
... WiFi stats ...

... modulating room temperature setpoint as a function of RH. That's OK, better than nothing. A better way dynamically reduces CFM per ton in cooling mode in response to RH being above setpoint. That raises air side delta-T and shifts the systems sensible heat ratio in favor of latent capacity. Bringing CFM per ton back up when RH is within bounds is important for efficiency.

This has been a standard feature of many variable speed air handlers (Trane, Carrier, Goodman) for many years. WF, and to my knowledge, CM, have not offered that for geo systems, and none of the 3rd party zoning systems I've checked into have it as well. WaterFurnace has finally gotten 'round to it with their Aurora controls.

... we install ... Honeywell 8000 series stat...

It will be interesting to learn if Ecobee supports this feature in compatible systems.

Curt, much appreciate the comments.  There's always a lot of learning available from your contributions.

Ecobee tstat connectivity is WiFi only - no Ethernet.  Thus, in a larger structure (i.e. a church) that doesn't have WiFi building wide, non-WiFi covered areas have to be controlled with Ecobees still in WiFi areas, via using connected remote temp sensors.

I'm learning that the traditional model of needing physical access to the tstat is no longer a fundamental need.  The Ecobee tstats allow for full control (including grouping) anywhere there's an Internet browser or a smart phone.  In fact, the extra expense slick touch screen interface model is generally not needed when the tstat is network accessible.

The WR tstats I most recently have been using have good to advanced humid/dehumid control, including:
1. RH display 
2. On/off control of humidifier/dehumid equip (2 ports)
3. No Equip Interface required (i.e. on/off terminals are at the tstat itself).
4. An option to allow RH to automatically influence cooling set points
 
Honeywell VisionPRO appears to support humid/dehumid control as follows:
1. RH display
2. On/off control (1 or 2 ports?)
3. An EI is required (i.e. on/off terminals are not at tstat)
4. An option to allow cooling to go as much as 3° cooler that the cooling set point.

The touchscreen Ecobee (commercial & residential) tstats support support humid/dehumid control:
1. RH display
2. On/off control (3 ports including ventilator/economizer)
3. An EI is required
4. An option to allow cooling to go as much as 5 degrees cooler than the cooling set point (also supported on less expensive non-touchscreen models).

Amen on optimum control mechanism to maximize comfort/efficiency utilizing an RH sensor. I occasionally reflect on how I could integrate control of my '07 vintage WaterFurnace Envision ECM blower fan with my WR or Ecobee tstats (having classic dehu connections).  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to come up with a scheme (that maintains my WF warranty), as Envision fan speed adjustment is via DIP switch only.  I believe this all changes with the WF 7 series offering, where I believe everything is variable speed (compressor, blower fan and water pumps) controlled by a proprietary tstat (Aurora).

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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20 Oct 2013 04:38 PM
Posted By jonr on 20 Oct 2013 11:26 AM
Some features I would like:

1) based on forecast (temp, perhaps solar gain), start change of high mass radiators (like a hydronic slab) early.

2) start/stop setback based on expected heat up/cool down rate (it changes with outdoor temp)

3) adjust temperature to account for cold walls. Ie, for equal comfort, you need a higher indoor temp when it is 0F outside than 50F outside.

4) Provide an "open/close the windows" indicator when it makes sense energy wise.



Dont' know yet.

For one area, Ecobee advertises lower/better energy savings due to having forecast info available to the tstat.  Don't know what basis of claims are, though, yet.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
jonrUser is Offline
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20 Oct 2013 05:13 PM
Some of their marketing is pure BS - like "the previous setback thermostats weren't programmed correctly and when replaced with properly programmed Ecobee thermostats, there was a $2,324 annual savings".
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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20 Oct 2013 05:40 PM
Posted By jonr on 20 Oct 2013 05:13 PM
Some of their marketing is pure BS - like "the previous setback thermostats weren't programmed correctly and when replaced with properly programmed Ecobee thermostats, there was a $2,324 annual savings".


Where did you read this?

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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20 Oct 2013 05:54 PM
It's a paraphrase of here. Any device can be misconfigured to perform poorly.
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20 Oct 2013 11:04 PM
If memory serves WF's basic Aurora control (ABC) will interact with a humidistat to drop CFM per ton on a dynamic, RH demand basis.

I haven't done one yet so can't be sure.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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21 Oct 2013 08:32 AM
An interesting off shoot for us Bill was that the system measures wind speed as well as temp (through national weather service). Inadvertantly, we noticed a house had a 10F rise in balance point with a 15MPH wind. We encouraged a client with a cellulose house to purchase a WiFi stat at cost so we could compare the envelopes.
As we collect data, we will be able to tweek our designs better based not just on R value, but what type of insulation.

While it's not news that some envelopes and materials are tighter than others, hard, loca,l data trumps.
Joe Hardin
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21 Oct 2013 10:56 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 21 Oct 2013 08:32 AM
... the system measures wind speed as well as temp (through national weather service). Inadvertantly, we noticed a house had a 10F rise in balance point with a 15MPH wind. We encouraged a client with a cellulose house to purchase a WiFi stat at cost so we could compare the envelopes. ...

Curt, thanks for comment on how WaterFurnace's ABC allows for step function capacity reduction (compressor/blower-fan/water-pumps) via on/off control from a non-Aurora tstat (i.e. classic dehumid tstat control).

Joe, your comment is the first piece of information I've gotten on how Ecobee tstats may optimize HVAC comfort using weather forecast data.  I.e., adjust balance point as a function of wind speed.

Overall on RH: Above I updated my summary comparison of Ecobee/VisionPRO/White-Rodgers RH usage and control based on new learnings.  The Ecobee touch screen models appear to be similar (but not so for non-touch-screen Ecobee models).

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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22 Oct 2013 09:21 PM
I really have to wonder where Ecobee came up with a 4,000 SF "retail location" with $20k annual heating and cooling costs!
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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22 Oct 2013 11:48 PM
Update:

I have procured 3 ecobee tstats so far - 2 have arrived and are now installed.  One's a commercial version, the other is a home version.

Neither are touch screen.  Both have online access to everything.

Data logging is once every 5 minutes.

Worked today on setting up a demo account, so that anyone can look to see how tstats work.  Maybe turn this on tomorrow.

So far works as advertised.  Actually pretty impressive!  I can see why sales are so strong, particularly on commercial side.

No problems connecting to my WaterFurnace Intellizone unit.  Was concerned that zoning panel (Intellizone) would pose some problems, as it has both AC and DC current flows

More tomorrow.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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23 Oct 2013 08:42 AM
Hey Bill thanks for the comment on Intellizone, that's a question that just came up for me.
To give others an idea about Ecobee tech support, I called yesterday when a client complained it was too cold in the home and we noticed it was not running on second stage.
While you are unable to do and see some of the set-up without being at the stat, Ecobee still can, so with one call I was able to tell if I had simply forgotten to set up ecobee for the second stage (and talk client through set up by phone) or if it were a wiring/hardware problem.
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23 Oct 2013 11:00 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 23 Oct 2013 08:42 AM
... Intellizone

... While you are unable to do and see some of the set-up without being at the stat


Thanks, Joe.

I'm not ready, yet, to conclude there's full compatibility with my Ecobee tstats and WaterFurnace's zone controller (Intellizone).  I'm aware of some Ecobee tstat users who have had problems, and I have been aware of some others with non-Ecobee tstats to have problems.

For the non-Ecobee tstats, the common denominator was/is these do solid-state 24 VAC voltage/current sensing versus doing it classically (and more expensively) with relays.  Since the Intellizone presents both AC and DC voltage/current components at it's tstat connection terminals, this presents challenge for some (but not all) solid-state oriented tstats.

I don't know yet what type of voltage/current sensing the Ecobee tstats employ.  I suspect they too are solid-state noting there are some Ecobee tstat users who believe they have had challenge.  This challenge isn't difficult to fix, but, requires a little additional (and external to the tstat) circuitry.

WRT not all setup parameters available at the Ecobee Internet browser:

I noticed the same thing last night, as I now have a commercial and a residential Ecobee tstat installed.  The Web portal is pretty different for each.  I think this is due to market focus.  For example, all of the "HomeIQ" stuff is not available on the commercial side.  But OTOH I notice that all setup parameters are available to me via the Web portal for my commercial 'flavor' tstat.

It's interesting that the Ecobee Web portal separates the two products.  So I don't have ability to use my commercial Web portal to make a change to my residential Ecobee tstat.  But, my guess is, Ecobee support does indeed have a commercial tstat oriented Web browser screen that does allow inclusion of residential tstat serial numbers, to enable support for all tstats in the field, residential or commercial.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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01 Nov 2013 03:28 PM
Status:

I secured 4 Ecobee tstats from my supplier, and I now have them installed and running at my home, mostly simulating a small business environment.

Ecobee has a 4 tstat product offering:

(all are full color)

EB-EMS-02 (retail priced $375), commercial focused, touchscreen, 3 H / 2 C staging
EB-EMSSi-01 ($325), commercial focused, non-touchscreen, 3 heat / 2 cool supported staging
EB-STAT-02 ($245), residential focused, touch screen, 4 H / 2 C staging
EB-SMARTSi-01 ($175), residential focused, non-touchscreen, 4 H / 2 C staging

I installed two commercial EMSSi-01 non-touchscreen models (connected to 2 of 3 zones of my WaterFurnace Envision 3 ton geo unit's Envision's Intellizone zone controller), one commercial EMS-02 touchscreen model (connected to my WF 5 ton Envision non-zoned geo unit), and one residential SMARTSi-01 non-touchscreen model (connected to the 3rd zone of my Intellizone).

This means I installed 3 of the 4 models offered by Ecobee.  What I didn't secure was a residential STAT-02 touchscreen model.

The touch screen models are more expensive due to 2 reasons: (1) it's a touch vs non-touch screen, and (2) the touch screen models use a 4 wire / Equipment Interface (EI) module connection strategy.

I've also secured 2 Remote Temp Sensor Modules from my supplier.  They're not installed yet.


Observations:

1.  (All environments) I stand corrected on equipment setup parameters accessible via Ecobee's Web Portal.  Most, if not all equipment related set up options are *not* available via the Web portal.  Note though, as Joe commented earlier, Ecobee support does have the ability to change these parameters.  Thus, they've probably got an accessible only to Ecobee support screen for this.

2.  (Commercial environments)  While it's easy to 'lock down' the tstats so no one can do anything to it at the stat, oppositely, it's not possible to lock down the tstats to control when/if they are firmware updated.  When Ecobee 'pushes' out a firmware update, everyone gets it.

This makes me a little nervous.

3.  (Residential & Commercial) Second stage wiring for touchscreen version tstats (i.e. those that use an EI) is a little unusual.  My guess is most installers not familiar with Ecobee would have to look up in the documentation the wiring configuration for the 2nd stage for this tstat - it's not obvious in the field.

(Second stage wiring for non-touchscreen version tstats is conventional and obvious I would think to most installers - on the heat pump side it's standard Y1 and Y2.)

4.  (Commercial) There are a lot of parameters available to adjust/configure.  No means exists to back them up to something in case a tstat needs to be replaced.

5.  (Commercial) The communication design of the tstats is such that there's a dependency on Ecobee always being a going business concern.  No direct connectivity is possible to any tstats without http://www.ecobee.com being available to provide the Web portal.  This is a very different design than the Web Energy Logger (WEL), where you can 'talk' directly to a WEL without http://www.welserver.com being available.

I suspect the logic here was cost and ease of installation related.  The tstat does not have a Web server running as part of it's operation; a WEL unit is an Internet Appliance with a small Web server built-in.  The tstat does not have any port configuration requirements; the WEL does.

6. (All) Firmware updates work on all 2nd generation design tstat models.  If the tstat was purchased in or subsequent to 2009, then it continues to be operable today with the latest firmware update enabled 'bells & whistles."


Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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02 Nov 2013 01:38 PM
Scratch not having automatic cooling point set point adjustment as a function of interior RH, like what the White Rodgers 'Big Blue' tstats have.  I figured out that the Ecobee tstats do support this.  It's just implemented with opposite logic as the WR tstats.

For example, with the White Rodgers 'Big Blue' implementation, if desired cooling set point is 77 degrees, tstat cooling set point is set at 77 degrees, and the dehumidy set point is set at some low RH number.  During very dry interior RH conditions, the cooling set point will be auto adjusted to 78 degrees, avoiding feeling cold during dry RH conditions.

For the same example, with Ecobee tstats, if desired cooling set point is the same 77 degrees, tstat cooling set point is set at 78 degrees, and dehumify set point is set at some high RH number.  During high moisture RH conditions, the cooling set point will be auto adjusted to 77 degrees.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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02 Nov 2013 01:57 PM
WRT compatibility of Ecobee tstats with WaterFurnace's Intellizone zone controller:

So far I have not noticed any compatibility problems with the tstats and the zone controller.

This is consistent with my experience using White Rodgers' 'Big Blue' tstats with the zone controller.  (Note that WR 'Big Blue' tstats are the OEM for WF sold tstats.)

This is not consistent with at least one WF / Ecobee user who expressed difficulty.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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02 Nov 2013 02:09 PM
Posted By jonr on 20 Oct 2013 11:26 AM
Some features I would like:

1) based on forecast (temp, perhaps solar gain), start change of high mass radiators (like a hydronic slab) early.

2) start/stop setback based on expected heat up/cool down rate (it changes with outdoor temp)

3) adjust temperature to account for cold walls. Ie, for equal comfort, you need a higher indoor temp when it is 0F outside than 50F outside.

4) Provide an "open/close the windows" indicator when it makes sense energy wise.



Now that I'm more knowledgeable, I know the answers to the above:

1) is supported in that outside temp is used as one of algorithm inputs to determine how early to start adjusting temp to meet cooling or heating set point at the scheduled time.  But, only conventional, air-to-air HP, and geo HP are supported with this feature - my guess is the start times would be incorrectly computed for a high mass radiator.
 
2) is not supported.

3) is supported.  There are two input channels to bring in external temp measurements or on/off logic signals.  And automation actions to choose from in response to whatever's coming in on the 2 channels.

4) is supported for touch-screen models.  Up to three output channels are available to signal / interface with external connected equipment.  (Note that the output channels are shared with many functions: staging, humidity/de-humid equipment, and economizers/ventilators.  A 2 H / 1 C staged heat pump will have all 3 output channels available.  A 4 H / 2 C staged heat pump along with a humidifier will have zero output channels available.  An so on.)


Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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05 Nov 2013 10:59 AM
I think I'm finished evaluating the Ecobee tstats.  My conclusion is that I think they're fine.

I'm not familiar with the Honeywell offering of Wi-Fi tstats, residential or commercial models.  But from the list of available features and options available via the Ecobee tstats, first glance at  least to me says the Ecobee tstats probably compete quite well from a feature stand point.

Certainly the Ecobee tstats have a greater feature set than the most advanced 'Big Blue' White-Rodgers tstat's I've been using (which are one model advanced to the OEM tstats supplied to WaterFurnace).

Ecobee has put considerable thought into the Ecobee tstats at least on the commercial side, which is my primary focus.  In addition to equipment and thresholds parameters and options, alarms and alerts are extensively available, and can be transmitted via email and text.

The Ecobee tstats do not offer a 'power stealing' wiring option.  Some probably view this as a 'plus.'  Of the two commercial models, the more advanced one is 4 wire with an 'everything under the kitchen sink' Equipment Interface unit (like the Honeywell commercial tstats).  The 5 wire no 'power stealing' tstat still offers almost as much feature set, is a 3 H / 2 C stage tstat, and offers two automation inputs (with same alarm and alert capability).

The biggest reservation, concern, and probably 'feature' that will prevent me from using Ecobee tstats in some commercial environments is that firmware updates are not manageable.  You don't have any opportunity to test or checkout firmware updates on a test tstat or a test environment before it goes out into the field of your customer tstats.  When Ecobee decides to 'push' out a firmware update, it goes, en mass, to all tstats, with no opportunity to say 'yes' or 'no' you want it.  I would not be comfortable having a customer with a 500 Ecobee tstat base, for example, and allowing firmware updates to randomly get applied.

In my opinion Ecobee's firmware update strategy is a serious flaw, and is a 'show stopper' for consideration of use for some commercial environments.

A minor drawback IMO is Ecobee's 3 year warranty versus Honeywell and White-Rodgers at five years.

Pretty interesting, and capable product that essentially eliminates the cost of putting an energy management system into a commercial environment yet offers all of the features of a centralized web management facility, and as a bonus offers the tstat management ability from a smart phone.  All of this works, although there's a pretty good learning curve to get comfortable with how things are laid out, and inefficiently requires keystrokes and mouse selections.

I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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