Ecobee Thermostats
Last Post 06 Aug 2015 08:02 PM by a0128958. 55 Replies.
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frankpcUser is Offline
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13 Nov 2013 11:13 AM
Joe - a stylus is a good idea, especially for those vertical slider bars in the setup menus. Andrew - I agree that tapping the temp bar on either side of the bubble setpoint usually moves the setpoint one degree in that direction. We leave our stats in "Auto" mode so the "home" screen has one temp bar but two setpoints with the active setpoint shown as a bubble. Adjusting the temp on this screen is very problematic. Our installer showed me an undocumented trick that helps a great deal. - From the home screen press the "Details" icon - On the Details screen touch the top left corner of the screen around where it says "Current Temperature". This takes you to a screen that has two temperature bars - one for heat and one for cool with individual setpoint bubbles for each. Much easier to adjust temps on this screen due to the separate temp bars. To be honest, without this screen, I think we would have swapped the Ecobees for something a bit more user friendly.
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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13 Nov 2013 10:07 PM
Posted By frankpc on 13 Nov 2013 11:13 AM
... Our installer showed me an undocumented trick that helps a great deal. - From the home screen press the "Details" icon - On the Details screen touch the top left corner of the screen around where it says "Current Temperature". This takes you to a screen that has two temperature bars - one for heat and one for cool with individual setpoint bubbles for each. Much easier to adjust temps on this screen due to the separate temp bars. To be honest, without this screen, I think we would have swapped the Ecobees for something a bit more user friendly.

Well, well, well. This comment is awesome!  Indeed, a very nice and very useful undocumented feature.  This works too on the commercial EMS tstats.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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05 Jan 2014 09:48 PM
Updates:

1. I've had to spend a good amount of time waiting for the Ecobee development team to delete a number of accounts I incorrectly set up.  The 'back end' software is not sophisticated enough yet to allow a user to delete an account they might set up.

2. One mission is to make a demo account available to everyone here, to enable viewing of how these tstats work, the charts and graphs, and the hierarchy structure possible.  I've successfully completed implementing the account, but, so far haven't figured out how to include charts & graphs.  I've got a request in to tech support.

3. One of two things I'm learning about is how the tstat determines what time of day to start things up to be at the coming setpoint temp change.  For example, my family room tstat is set for 70°F at 7 AM.  The Ecobee tstats use outside temp, inside temp, set point values, and 'the way your home and HP perform' to determine when to actually start heating in order for temp to be at 70°F at 7 AM, and in the most efficient manner.

4. A key thing I'm learning about is that the tstat also (I think) manages how low the set point temp is actually allowed to be.  I.e., I think the tstats manage how cool the structure is allowed to get regardless of how low the set aback temp may be.  While I agree with most here that optimal setback temps at night for heating for geo is just a few degrees, for now I'm running an experiement with set back temps all the way back at 58°F.  I'm looking for evidence that the tstats will ignore the 58° set back and choose some warmer temp.

All for now.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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06 Jan 2014 09:09 AM
Bill is it possible that your home is insulated well enough not to drop 12 degrees in the time available?

Thanks for the update. I agree I've found a few things to be a little clunky with these stats, but they are better than everything else right now (IMHO).
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
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Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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07 Jan 2014 08:45 PM
Posted By Bill Neukranz on 05 Jan 2014 09:48 PM
Updates:

4. A key thing I'm learning about is that the tstat also (I think) manages how low the set point temp is actually allowed to be.  I.e., I think the tstats manage how cool the structure is allowed to get regardless of how low the set aback temp may be.  While I agree with most here that optimal setback temps at night for heating for geo is just a few degrees, for now I'm running an experiement with set back temps all the way back at 58°F.  I'm looking for evidence that the tstats will ignore the 58° set back and choose some warmer temp.

Quickly:

I believe I am confirming item 4 above.  I have my setback temps all set to 50 degrees now - something I wouldn't have dreamed of doing with past tstats when connected to HPs, air or geo.

Indeed the tstats are stepping in during the night and (supposedly) optimally managing the setback temp, such that (hopefully) total energy consumed to get through the night and be at 'occupied' temp at the set point time is lowest possible (versus just a few degree 'classic theory' set back).

Joe: will get back to your comments a little later.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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09 Jan 2014 10:39 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 06 Jan 2014 09:09 AM
Bill is it possible that your home is insulated well enough not to drop 12 degrees in the time available?

Thanks for the update. I agree I've found a few things to be a little clunky with these stats, but they are better than everything else right now (IMHO).

Joe, yes.  A drop of 12 degrees inside across 8 hour time period won't usually happen.  The fact that it did for me early this week is because, like most everyone else, we had an intensely cold few days.  For the Dallas area, 9 degrees outside at my house definitely meets the definition of 'intensely cold.'

Increasingly strongly agree on Ecobee tstats as I come down learning curve.  Yep, I find the web interface screens to be difficult to figure out how to properly use, but, it's doable.  And there are some things that don't work or don't work well with the screens.  So far I haven't found any problems with the actually tstats.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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09 Jan 2014 10:50 AM
Still waiting for them to reverse stage the auxiliary. It was nearly a deal breaker for me, but ecobee is still beter than the rest and they suggest they are working on it.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
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Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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09 Jan 2014 10:58 AM
For anyone who wants to look at how these tstats work, and what the web interface looks like, I've set up a 'read only' Ecobee web interface login:

Go to http://www.ecobee.com
 
Username: [email protected]

Password: americaneei

Illustrated is the set up a contracting company would have for two companies (customers), company #1 with one tstat, and company #2 with two tstats.

The Ecobee web interface is set up to keep adding companies as installations are done.  And for each company, a further hieararchy can be set up (multiple buildings, multiple zones within each building, etc.)

Ecobee has some software defects for this web interface such that charts and graphs are not visible for 'read only' accounts.  That's unfortunate because the charts and graphs are pretty good and an excellent means of enabling the contractor to do troubleshooting of a companies situation on a remote basis.  I've confirmed with Ecobee tech support that there's a problem, but, it's something that their development team has to fix, and there's no time commitment to do so.

Holler if you have questions.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
Bill NeukranzUser is Offline
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09 Jan 2014 12:03 PM
Posted By Bill Neukranz on 05 Jan 2014 09:48 PM

...

4. A key thing I'm learning about is that the tstat also (I think) manages how low the set point temp is actually allowed to be.  I.e., I think the tstats manage how cool the structure is allowed to get regardless of how low the set aback temp may be.  While I agree with most here that optimal setback temps at night for heating for geo is just a few degrees, for now I'm running an experiement with set back temps all the way back at 58°F.  I'm looking for evidence that the tstats will ignore the 58° set back and choose some warmer temp.

Based on results I've seen so far, I've concluded that I think this works.  I've thus set my set back temps low enough to allow the tstat to completely manage how cold the structure is allowed to get, and what process to use to most economically get to the next Set Point temp.

My heat set back temp set points are now at 50 degrees, something I wouldn't have imagined doing until now.

Next means of verifying enhanced economical performance of my Ecobee tstats is to watch the BTUs/HDD/SF number that my WEL energy monitoring system calculates for me.  If I'm right that the tstats can determine the most economical means of set back, then this number should show improvement relative to what I've been doing (max 4 degree set back).

We've discussed here in the past that it's not an economical thing to do to use aggressive set back temp set points if using geo.  In fact some say the most economical setting with geo is no setback SP temp at all.  I think it's possible there's an exception to this if using Ecobee tstats.  I'll continue to watch this carefully.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
frankpcUser is Offline
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09 Jan 2014 12:22 PM
Bill, Interesting information about setbacks. Do you know if they use the local weather information to calculate how best to ramp the temperature to the next setpoint over time? Frank
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09 Jan 2014 01:29 PM
I now believe outside temp is used, obtained via either forecast or actual connection (if installed), along with other input values, for management of the set back temp and management of the ramp up process.

I'm not so sure on useage of 'look ahead' outside temp forecast data.  And further, I suspect it's proprietary.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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31 Jan 2014 10:59 AM
My Ecobee's have shown me an unusual pattern in this stinkin vortex. Many of my clients balance points actually seem to get lower, when out door temp is rising. Some were not engaging auxiliary even when temp was 10* + below balance point (while outdoor temp was climbing). One house in particular had auxiliary engaging over 20*F in a good wind last year and ran 7 hours without auxiliary in single digits last week with a 24MPH wind.
Something I'll have to study one of these days.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
dgbairUser is Offline
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31 Jan 2014 02:22 PM
Joe, I've noticed the same effect with my system as well. My aux heat hardly ever comes on (probably could have gotten away with a 3 ton unit) but when it does come on it's always after the coldest temps have passed. The first time it happened it caught me by surprised and I had to go look to make sure everything was running ok. lol
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31 Jan 2014 04:13 PM
Even in the Dallas area, temps have been far low enough this winter to well test out Ecobee tstat performance and behavior.  I'm noticing the same things here too.

Recall that Nest claims: "Some people will tell you that it's a bad, energy-wasting idea to set your bedtime temperature down if you have a heat pump. That advice only makes sense if you don't have a Nest Thermostat. With Heat Pump Balance, your Nest Thermostat can adjust the temperature while you sleep to keep energy bills low."
 
This caught my attention a few weeks ago, and I pointed out to Ecobee representatives that this would sure been nice to have with Ecobee tstats.

Ecobee responded and said 'not true that Next is the only tstat that does this - Ecobee tstats do this too:'
 
"We use indoor temperature, set point, outdoor weather and the way your home and heat pump perform to ... calculate how cool to allow your home to get ... and when to 'raise the set point' or start recovery ... and this creates the optimum energy recovery curve.  There is not a more efficient way to recover and the physics dictate that this curve will also save you the most money because your average heat setpoint will be as low as possible."
 
I thought 'cool!'  I'll test and verify this, as I'd love to tell my friends, colleagues and customers that with Ecobee tstats they'll directly manage setback temps for optimum energy usage regardless of how much setback is implemented.  In my case I used 4 degree setback temps on my WaterFurnace tstats for my geo heat pumps.  With the Ecobees, I set them all at 50 degrees (4 tstats).

After carefully looking at this subject for this month, I'm ready to conclude that, at least for tstats configured as controlling a 2 stage geo HP, Ecobee tstats *do not* dynamically manage a heat mode 'set back' temp as a function of various parameters.
 
In fact, I'm ready to conclude that Ecobee tstats do not manage a heat mode 'set back temp' in any manner. I see no evidence that it does.
 
Indeed the Ecobee tstats correctly figure out how early to start the heating process to ensure set point temp is reached by the programmed time. The tstat's configured 1st stage heating time is correctly honored. Remaining time needed to get to setpoint is done with 2nd stage heating.
 
I'm putting my heat mode night time set back temps back to the time honored 4 or 5 degrees cooler. And will keep on the lookout for others that might do research in the future on this subject, to see what I might have missed and/or for affirmation of my observations.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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01 Feb 2014 09:43 AM
Interesting observation Bill. I've been a champion of this stat for some time.....for my purposes which do not include set backs so this is not a deal breaker for me. Nor are exaggerated claims by a manufacturer (otherwise I probably couldn't purchase a heat pump either LOL).
But I'm disappointed if they do not work for your purposes as well.

I have not played with a Nest and don't expect to. I also sense that the days of the thermostat that does not match your appliance are numbered.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
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06 Aug 2015 08:02 PM
I gave up on the Ecobee (commercial flavor) tstats.  Two of the 4 Ecobee tstats are now gone.  Replaced them with Network Thermostat.  These come with either WiFi or Ethernet connection.  They're also Internet Appliances so you can 'talk' to them regardless of WAN connection or not.

Summary on Ecobee: not long term compatible with WaterFurnace's Zone Control unit (Intellizone), poor reliability with electronic version relays, very difficult to maintain Wi-Fi connection, temperature calibration challenge, and exposure to random firmware updates.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring</br>
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX <A
href="http://www.americaneei.com">
(www.americaneei.com)</A></br>
Example monitoring system: <A href="http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043"> www.welserver.com/WEL0043</A>
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