"Was just thinking that if the system ran continuously it could heat the house part of the time and when not heating the house it could draw heat from outside and put it back in the ground for future use. Guess I'm just dreaming."

Well you are dreaming of an air source heat pump. they do have some low ambient units now (works in very cold outside air). It would be easier (and probably cheaper) to buy one vs make a Frankenstein version.

"Would it be possible to take the same amount of copper tube that's in the ground, make it into coils, put it in a box with a fan and use that instead of a field?"

Same answer.

"Also, Heard from EarthLinked. They will replace the manifold BUT it will only be delivered to a certified Earthlinked dealer and must be installed by them. That's 427 miles one way and to do the job properly will take at least 4 days. I'm screwed."

Obviously that is not reasonable. I would try to find a local contractor willing to get involved and then offer Earthlinked a compromise of a contractor in the absence of THEY providing you with one.

Today I dug up the manifold where it broke last time. Sure enough, a tube broke loose. I believe this is due to frost heave because even though it's almost June there is still very hard, frozen ground above the manifold but the ground is free of frost two feet from it.

You may want to surround the manifold with a non-frost susceptible fill material such as gravel. Including an area underneath it that can hold any water that makes it down there.

Posted By jonr on 01 Jun 2014 11:48 AM

Today I dug up the manifold where it broke last time. Sure enough, a tube broke loose. I believe this is due to frost heave because even though it's almost June there is still very hard, frozen ground above the manifold but the ground is free of frost two feet from it.

You may want to surround the manifold with a non-frost susceptible fill material such as gravel. Including an area underneath it that can hold any water that makes it down there.

What you don't know jon is the manufacturer dictates the backfill material. Variation from that isn't recommended.

Hi,
The soil where the field is consists of clay, without any rocks or gravel, that is sub-irrigated. Right now there is standing water 6 feet below the surface. At times it will rise to 4 feet. The field is 8 feet down so it is in saturated clay all the time.
Before installing the system I had a long chat with EarthLinked about the soil/water conditions. They assured me that this would the best soil because of close contact.

I have thought of surrounding the manifolds with a well or large box of some kind but with the water I don't think it would work.
I believe this was a very poor system design for my area. It may be ok in a desert where there's no moisture in the ground.
Thanks

I think that the manifold needs to be raised up far enough that it isn't sitting in water/ice. Plus whatever non frost susceptible fill the manufacturer recommends.

"It may be ok in a desert where there's no moisture in the ground."

Unfortunately dry sand conveys btu's much more slowly and with the limitation of not being able to add a bunch of loop to compensate, DX is not a good canidate for those conditions.

DX systems are viable. It is often the design that fails not the product.

For instance if your system was designed heavy to ensure downtime every hour for adjacent soil to thaw, then you wouldn't be crushed by frost.

"For instance if your system was designed heavy to ensure downtime every hour for adjacent soil to thaw, then you wouldn't be crushed by frost."
Good thought but I think I'm done with the field in the ground. Too difficult to locate problems and fix them.

I have a heat/cool contractor who is willing to look at the system and make recommendations. He is thinking of replacing the field with an above ground exchanger and using my existing system (compressor, air handler, etc.)

Good Luck, just consider looking into a ASHP system price (complete) before spending too much "modifying" a system that likely has lots of damage to the compressor after pumping itself dry a few times.

Hi all,
Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice. After a lot of thought we decided to use the existing "A" coil and install a new 5 ton 2 stage air source heat pump. It's been running for about 3 weeks on air conditioner mode and seems to be doing a good job. It's been 90-100 outside and it will maintain 65 in the house. (Friends visit us and after awhile they go back outside to warm up) As near as I can tell it is adding an extra $30/month to our electric bill which is about the same as the geo system. Hope it works as well in heat mode.
Thanks again,
Ron

Was also curious if instead of using copper tubes in the ground in a low pressure system would PEX pipe be a better material? It's more flexible. Not that I'm going back to geo.

"After a lot of thought we decided to use the existing "A" coil"

If it's working I'm going to guess the installer changed the metering device (installed a new piston or TXV)

"Was also curious if instead of using copper tubes in the ground in a low pressure system would PEX pipe be a better material? It's more flexible. Not that I'm going back to geo."

Refrigerent pressures easily exceed PEX ratings. However a water to air heat pump circulates water and antifreeze through HDPE pipe. These systems are preferred by the majority of geo pro's (to DX systems like you used to have).

"If it's working I'm going to guess the installer changed the metering device (installed a new piston or TXV)"

He did add a TXV. He also said the original installer didn't have a metering device on it and it was free flowing. Also found out my old compressor was a 2 stage but was wired to run as a single.

Also, I noticed the new installer didn't level the outside unit. It's about 2 inches off level. He is scheduled to do a one month check up soon. Should I insist on it being leveled? Will this harm the compressor?

Correct the old one would not have had a metering device as the refrigerant is regulated differently with Earthlinked. I'm not aware of a 2 stage Earthlinked system, so it maybe a compressor substitution. When working correctly the system is efficient without multiple stages.

Best practice is to level the system. If it is on a poly slab, you can pry up the corner and throw some pea gravel under it if you don't want to take it up with the installer. Not likely to harm it.

Does EarthLinked have a history of manifold issues. My system was put in in 08. We had some issues and finding a dealer was horrific. My dealer also went out of business. Someone can out for routine work and found a leak which ended up being the manifold. This winter we experienced our 2nd frozen field and had to thaw the field before we could excavate. We found that the smaller (it does look fragile) manifold had a broken "arm" up at the top. My system is still not operational. Having problems getting water out of it.

Can't help but wonder if the manifold is defective in design.

What you are describing are the inherent issue with direct exchange system. I know of a good amount of similar case, if not exactly the same.

Thank you, doc jenser. If anyone else knows of problems, please post

"Having problems getting water out of it"
Are your field tubes full of ice? I had frozen tubes which were full of ice. The only way I knew of to thaw them was with an arc welder connected to each end of a loop while keeping pressurized nitrogen connected to one end. At 80 amps it took a couple minutes to thaw a loop and when it did thaw it shot small cylinders of ice out the open end with such force they would easily penetrate skin.

Are you in the Spokane area? I did talk to someone here who had the same issues.

Bogey, got your message.
Can't be of much help, simply stated that I had seen about 8-9 failed direct exchange systems, most of them with leaking pipes somewhere in the ground.