5 Ton Hydrotemp problems
Last Post 10 Feb 2016 09:16 AM by ChrisJ. 19 Replies.
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vanman2004bUser is Offline
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13 Jun 2015 07:58 PM
I posted this in another thread and decided I really should start my own. I have a 5 Ton Hydrotemp unit. Mine has failed for the third time in about 3-4 years. The first time my coil had multiple leaks and was replaced out of warranty. They did give me a discount on the coil. The second failure was BOTH compressors failed at the same time. The compressors were under warranty but installation and materials were not. Tech looked at it yesterday morning. He added 3.5 lbs of Freon. It only holds 6.5. He could not find a leak after looking for about an hour. His leak detector went off when he checked in the auto-purge tank. His boss told him that it went off because of the methanol in the tank. I really don't think that is why it went off. I suspect a leak in the Freon to water heat exchanger.
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14 Jun 2015 11:46 AM
Bummer but you may be right.
Joe Hardin
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ChrisJUser is Offline
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17 Jun 2015 09:01 AM
I don't know the details of your unit, mine has 3 heat exchangers: Ground loop, Radiant and DHW.

Was getting "air" in radiant loop turned out to be refrigerant. Same with DHW which has since been bypassed.

I too wonder now if the ground loop is leaking.

My problems are being blamed on water PH level. Do you know the quality of the water used to fill your ground loop?

ChrisJ
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17 Jun 2015 10:57 PM
Mine has two heat exchangers, ground loop and DHW. We have not moved in to the house yet, another long story. The DHW is not active so I really don't think that heat exchanger is defective. I have a well with very soft, 20 ppm, acidic water.
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16 Jan 2016 07:54 PM
It has been six months since the refrigerant was added and today I noticed that the unit is running constantly and that a thermostat was calling for auxiliary heat. The breaker for the heat strip is turned off. I suspect that the refrigerant is low again. I see another expensive service call and "no leak found" in my future.

I think I will ask how much it would cost to replace the refrigerant to water heat exchanger.

This would be the third major repair on this unit.
jonrUser is Offline
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17 Jan 2016 07:52 AM
What's the pH of your water vs the manufacturer spec?
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17 Jan 2016 07:52 AM
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ChrisJUser is Offline
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17 Jan 2016 08:28 AM
I feel your pain!

Yes, sounds like your in for an expensive repair.

My Hydro-Temp unit is weeks from complete replacement, 6 years old.Not with another HT unit

After $6500+ in repairs, recharges within 2 years, getting something with a real warranty.

Sorry I don't really have any advice for you, I will say what my wife and I said, "at what point do we stop throwing money at this POS and save for a brand that will last"

ChrisJ

vanman2004bUser is Offline
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17 Jan 2016 09:12 AM
We have not moved in yet so there has been virtually no water flow through the DHW heat exchanger. We were planning on moving in very soon, but that may change now. I told the contractor about the soft acidic water before he installed the unit. It is supposed to have a DHW heat exchanger that can handle this type of water. Since the ground loops do not take in "new" water I don't think that the soft water would be an issue for the refrigerant to water heat exchanger. I have never seen or been told what the manufacturer specs for PH are.

Chris, what are you replacing yours with?
ChrisJUser is Offline
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17 Jan 2016 12:16 PM
Have not ordered one yet. Been looking at ones that can be purchased for DIY install.

Just over a year ago I replaced the electric hot water heater, with HT it is unpowered and used more as a storage tank for the on-demand DHW, I put in a GeoSpring heat pump hot water heater by GE.

I have blown all the water out of the radiant slabs in my basement and garage, so we are getting just a water to air GSHP. Will be adding some duct work to the basement for a little heat.

Latest unit I have looked at is a ClimateMaster Tranquillity 30 TT.

ChrisJ
vanman2004bUser is Offline
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17 Jan 2016 06:42 PM
I suspect that we both got "lemons". I am sure that it happens to all manufacturers. Considering all of the problems I have had with this house I am not the least surprised that I got a lemon.

I might have them do another recharge while I decide what to do for a long term solution. I might do one more major repair before replacing it.
vanman2004bUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2016 12:09 AM
Chris,

Perhaps you should consider using this: http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/chemical-tools/super-seal-advanced/

It is about $50 on Amazon.

If you are going to replace your unit you don't have much to lose.
ChrisJUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2016 09:32 AM
The refrigeration guy we have been using has put a leak stop in twice, HT recommended this brand I can't remember the name right now.

Do you have a palm pilot that you can read the sensors with?

I got a price from HT for a new air coil, they said the price was below cost but $170 for shipping seemed crazy, nothing like making up for cost with high shipping!

vanman2004bUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2016 12:42 PM
I do not have a Palm Pilot, but am planning on getting one ASAP.

I had a coil put in mine about 3-4 years ago. It was not covered by the warranty. They supposedly did give me a discount. It had several leaks that they could find.

The next major repair was both compressors at the same time.

I really suspect the leak now is the water to refrigerant heat exchanger as the tech could detect refrigerant in the auto purge tank but not any where else. His boss said that the methanol could give a false positive, but I have doubts about that.

Today the house is 2-3 degrees below the set point and calling for aux heat. I have the breakers for the aux heat turned off. It was about 12 degrees last night, so if it was working properly it would not be calling for the aux heat.



vanman2004bUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2016 06:33 PM
I called Hydro Temp today. They concur that the refrigerant to water heat exchanger is the most likely suspect. They also said that they have used stop leak on a leak like this only one time and it was not successful.

Their V Star line of GSHPs are a direct bolt in replacement for the one that I have. They have a ten year "bumper to bumper" warranty according the gentleman that I spoke to.

I am going to get a quote from my contractor as well as Hydro Temp on replacing my heat exchanger. I am very strongly considering getting a tank of R410a and a set of gauges as well as a Palm Pilot and some stop leak.
ChrisJUser is Offline
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19 Jan 2016 08:13 AM
10 year bumper to bumper...

We are not going down the Hydro-temp road again!

Keep us posted

Chris
vanman2004bUser is Offline
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28 Jan 2016 07:17 PM
Right or wrong here is what I did:
I bought a set of gauges, a cylinder of R410a, a refrigerant scale, a leak detector, a can of Cliplight Super Seal stop leak, Palm Pilot, and a PH meter.
After adding 2.4 pounds of R410a I put the stop leak in. I will check the PH of the ground loops tomorrow when the PH meter arrives.

HT tech support thinks that the leak is in the coil as they have never seen a leak this small (2.4 pounds in six months) in a refrigerant to water heat exchanger.
I will check the performance in a month with the Palm Pilot before I even think of getting out the gauges.

Comments?
ChrisJUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2016 11:25 AM
I have thought about getting those tools. Did you add any dye? or is the leak detector a sniffer tool?

Leak Freeze is the one HT suggested we use, It was used twice.

Stage one compressor doesn't produce air temp higher then 80*F, When I kick it to the stage 2 compressor it gets up to between 90*-97*F.

It's taking longer then I thought to find the best replacement.

Chris
vanman2004bUser is Offline
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09 Feb 2016 04:13 PM
I bought a sniffer type leak detector but I just added Freon and the stop leak without even looking for the leak. I thought the sniffer that my contractor has is probably better than the one that I bought.

I talked to tech support at Leak Freeze and Cliplight as well as reading everything I could find before deciding which one to use.

I would seriously consider the new HTs with a ten year warranty for a replacement. That is my plan if I can not repair mine with stop leak or a service call from HT. My contractor no longer sells HT and I am close enough to the factory that a service call with factory techs is an option.
ChrisJUser is Offline
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10 Feb 2016 09:16 AM
For your DHW, try to get a real buffer tank. The use of an electric water heater doesn't allow enough flow through the heat exchanger, they only have 3/4" ports.

http://ecomfort.com/h2o-60-gallons-storage-tank-stainless-steel-93234.html. This one can be ordered with an electric element for emergency back up.

Chris
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