Posted By electrodacus on 28 Jun 2012 11:34 PM
@whirnot
I will not call someone an engineer if it will not be able to calculate that wall or any other wall :)
I can even do that with my limited mechanical engineering skills since I'm an electrical engineer but I think there are no calculation needed since that is a really solid construction especially compared to the 2x6 frame walls.
Of course it can be done with less materials but then you will need calculations and that can cost more than the additional materials.
I used 2x4 the short 92" in this project since they are available at hardware store and are 30% less expensive by volume than any other structural wood.
I made a spread sheet calculation and all building materials for this house including foundation, windows, doors, roof, thermal insulation and drywall will get to about $28000 even if my target price is under 25k so for now is a bit over budget.
If I chose to replace this wall with a 2x6 standard frame wall I will only save probably around 1000$ since the 2x6 is less but a bit more expensive and you also need OSB.
There are a few problems for me with 2x6 walls. One is that is less strong and the other big problem is the fiberglass insulation that I hate to work with or have in my lungs is also quite inefficient for walls. I opted to isolate this with 9" of EPS so the wall will be about R40 including the 3.5" wood wall.

The highest cost and complexity seems to be the foundation about 9000$ in materials and now I try to investigate the other solution I just heard about steel screw piles there are some 18ft (5.5m) long with double helix of 14" or 16" available at 400$/piece and I think for my house about 15 of those will work.
Dose anyone has experience with this type of foundation? I'm not sure they can be installed in the type of soil I have that is a sort of gravel with a lot of round rocks some quite large.
In the end the steel will probably corrode but they can probably be easily replace if required somewhere in the future.           
I'm an engineer and normally we calculate close to the limit to save on the initial cost but I like to oversize.
            
PS: I searched about "crib house" but did not find anything. Anyway I will say is more similar to a log house just that the wood is not round and only less than 4" not 8" or so on some log cabins (they use that much wood mostly to met a minim of insulation value since they do not use additional insulation to be able to showcase the wood).

If you google Crib elevator, you can find a lot of old photos, of the structures, many still remain. They are incredibly strong. But also very labor intensive. (I have built them many years ago.) Some used to use 2x10 at the bottom and gradually narrow to 2x4 at the top. Some were over 100 feet tall!

Posted By whirnot on 01 Jul 2012 06:42 PM

If you google Crib elevator, you can find a lot of old photos, of the structures, many still remain. They are incredibly strong. But also very labor intensive. (I have built them many years ago.) Some used to use 2x10 at the bottom and gradually narrow to 2x4 at the top. Some were over 100 feet tall!

Thanks, I did find some elevators on google that seems they are build that way maybe that will help me in negotiating with the building inspector since there is a precedent for this type of building.
The strong part is what it interest me and is only about 1000$ additional in material cost compared to a 2x6 frame building. I realize that it will be labor intensive but I do not build a large house so I'm willing to put in the necessary work.
I think the log house is quite similar just that the logs are way overkill for the strength much heavier so not easy to work with and more expensive per volume. The only reason that log houses use that much wood is to be able to meet a minimum of thermal insulation so you can have the wood exposed.
         

Interesting, in rural Nova Scotia, where I am from, many builders still buy from local mills and a lot of lumber is not kiln dried. It is less expensive so maybe you could research the local suppliers and see if you can get the price down.

Have you also thought of all the nails needed to build this, and the nail gun. There is no way i would frame this by hand.

I do not think I can get the price much lower than the 2x4x92 that I can find at Lowes or Home Depot for 1.79$ without tax in the winter was even less expensive at 1.59$ I may even be able to negotiate not to pay tax 10% here since I get large volume and maybe other building materials from them.
The quality also seems good not sure I will get the same from local mils.
Not sure I remember correctly but I think I need 4500 nails but I'm not afraid to use a hammer for them :) I do not like the nail gun even if in this particular case will probably be quite safe to use.      

Posted By electrodacus on 03 Jul 2012 01:40 AM
I do not think I can get the price much lower than the 2x4x92 that I can find at Lowes or Home Depot for 1.79$ without tax in the winter was even less expensive at 1.59$ I may even be able to negotiate not to pay tax 10% here since I get large volume and maybe other building materials from them.
The quality also seems good not sure I will get the same from local mils.
Not sure I remember correctly but I think I need 4500 nails but I'm not afraid to use a hammer for them :) I do not like the nail gun even if in this particular case will probably be quite safe to use.      

I had to quit being a carpenter due to framing with the most popular hammer on the market (starts with an E and has a steel shaft), which doesn't meet workers comp wrist strain regs. This was before nail guns came in so i would think hard about that idea. I have one now and wouldn't do without it plus it will be way faster.

Posted By MikeSolar on 03 Jul 2012 06:23 AM

I had to quit being a carpenter due to framing with the most popular hammer on the market (starts with an E and has a steel shaft), which doesn't meet workers comp wrist strain regs. This was before nail guns came in so i would think hard about that idea. I have one now and wouldn't do without it plus it will be way faster.

I definitely understand your concern but I will only build one house. I will not do that for a living. I also work for me and I care for me quite a lot :).
Also I think that except for the cost of the nail gun the nails are also different and probably more expensive.

 

Posted By electrodacus on 03 Jul 2012 06:16 PM

Posted By MikeSolar on 03 Jul 2012 06:23 AM

I had to quit being a carpenter due to framing with the most popular hammer on the market (starts with an E and has a steel shaft), which doesn't meet workers comp wrist strain regs. This was before nail guns came in so i would think hard about that idea. I have one now and wouldn't do without it plus it will be way faster.

I definitely understand your concern but I will only build one house. I will not do that for a living. I also work for me and I care for me quite a lot :).
Also I think that except for the cost of the nail gun the nails are also different and probably more expensive.

 

With a framing axe, and some practice you can drive nails pretty fast. We used to drive `16D nails with three strikes, Start, drive, set.

Posted By whirnot on 08 Jul 2012 08:30 PM


With a framing axe, and some practice you can drive nails pretty fast. We used to drive `16D nails with three strikes, Start, drive, set.

Even if it will take me 5 seconds for each nail it will take me a total of about 6 hours for all 4500 nails.
Of course I will not only do that but using a nail gun can not save me more than a day in total labor and is not justified for only one small house.
I did not decided if I will use 10D or 20D nails it depends if I want to penetrate three rows of 2x4 or only two.

Now I need to build a 300ft (90m) road hope this next weekend and clean a bit the building site then mount 4 of those large 18ft steel piles to see how well they can be installed in my soil (mostly gravel) I will use that for a small shed and the base for a steel tower probably 20ft (6m) tall that will be used for my wind turbine INTERNET antenna weather station and video surveillance for now.

Then if this steel piles work well on my type of soil I will use them for the house about 15 of them spaced about 9 to 10 feet it will be much faster than concrete and probably greener since there is only steel and not that much concrete.
Price will be quite similar but it saves me with the excavation and concrete work probably one month in time saving and that is important since I'm already delayed with my schedule.
Since this steel piles are an engineered product I will probably not need a foundation design and after I change the drawings maybe I can get the building permit whiteout engineered stamps. That will be great since this is what I hate most about this job.
                  

I made a video about the house is not finalized as of now but you can see the structure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qONiLVTG46I