Has anyone tried this stuff? I think I know the Pros, but what are the Cons?

How do they handle the seams on the 4x8 stucco sheets? are they well hidden?

If I were to go with clapboards what would be the longest lasting finish?
If I paint it does it (the paint job) last longer than painted wood?
Can it be stained?

Is the price comperable to wood?

Thanks

We're going to have Hardie board siding for our ICF home.  I can't answer some of your questions, but we are going with their Color Plus Technology, so the boards are pre-painted.  The color is guaranteed for 15 years.  We did read that, if you paint the Hardie Boards, they hold the paint longer than wood does.

I don't think they would stain so well; they are just a white color, almost like a clay or ceramic pot at one of those paint-your-dishes places.  I can't swear to the lack of staining ability, though, but, in all of their literature, I've never read anything about staining Hardie boards.  If you PM me, I can send you the cost for our siding for our 2 story house.

Cheers!
Heather W
Our ICF Home Construction Journal

I have used Hardie board on several projects. The oldest being about five years. I like the product and it holds up very well. I have used the lap siding, full 4' x 8' RB panels and the Hardie Trim. However, it generates a lot of dangerous concrete dust when cut (respirator a must)with a power saw. Using a utility knife works to score it, then snap it works well, but it slows down the process and blades dull quickly. While it is a very strong product, it is very fragile when turned on edge and will easily break. That said, I just finished a job (by myself) with almost 1000-12' long boards and broke only 2 planks. The 4' x 8' sheets are much sturdier. I caulk all lap joints and all ends abutting trim with a good quality paintable caulk. Back to the 4' x 8' sheets. The joints are not very forgiving and must be vertically plumb. I typically lay down a wide bead of caulk along edge and install the first sheet. Then I but the second sheet and make sure that I get caulking squeeze along the entire seam. Then I nail and wipe off the excess caulk. A batten board will also work over the joint, but detracts from the appearance. There are probably other methods, but that is what I used. Five years later, the boards still look good. Attaching the planks and boards differ. I top nail the planks with 1 3/4" hot dipped galvanized (HDG) roofing nails. Being in a hurricane prone area, I also face nail with #8 HDG spirial siding nails with 1/8" heads and caulk the nail heads. The face nails are almost invisible. Attaching the full size sheets, I use the spirial siding nails and caulk. Hardie trim is a little more difficult to work with. It must be cut with a power saw as it is too thick to score and snap. Also, nail holes must be pre-drilled with a masonry bit or the nails will bend. I like the product, but it is very time consuming. I like the product, but you must understand its limitations and benefits.

The siding costs half of high grade vertical grain wood siding.  Labor is higher/more difficult.  Since it is essentially concrete, paint holds up very well & shouldn't be affected by moisture as is wood siding, so should last much longer.

I just wanted to add that our builder said that Hardie Board trim pieces are EXTREMELY fragile as you are putting them up.  They cost about $15 each, and he said they snap amazingly easily!  Once they're up, they seem to be okay, but he said that, if he had it to do over, he'd use the Hardie Board for the siding, but then PVC for the trim.

Cheers!
Heather W
Our ICF Home Construction Blog

My house is covered with Hardipanel and I used Hardisoffit under the eaves and Hardiplank for trim. It's a little harder to cut than wood. You need a special circular saw blade that costs about fifty dollars and you have to wear a dust mask. My contractor fastened it with a nail gun which worked pretty well. We used H channel to join the panels. Some people cover the joints with a thin Hardiplank.

I don't like the Hardisoffit so much. The nails pulled through it in places over time and I have had to make repairs. It may be that my contractor didn't fasten it correctly. The stuff is kind of like drywall. It's heavy and isn't very strong. It cannot be used below grade. But, my walls are just fine. The stuff also resists termites and doesn't rot or warp. The paint should stay on for a long time.

I just finished my house using only Hardie 7 1/4" Lap siding preprimed, Hardie Shingles unprimed and 5/4 8", 5/4 6", 5/4 4" Hardie Trim preprimed. My square footage was a total of 2300 square feet with 1500 sqft Lap and 800 sqft Shingles.

The results have been absolutely great. I did all the demo, repairs and improvements myself and hired a crew of 3 to do the install. I then did the nail sealing, priming and painting myself. There are alot of other types of siding but the end result is where will you get the most bang (equity increase) for your buck.


If you want some pics give me an email address.

Just MHO...........Hope this helps

Oh, and by the way James Hardie reformulated and improved cement/fiber products so they are not very fragile any more........Regards

OK Pros... Private homeowner here about to tackle a residing job using hardie 8.25" x 12'....... Instructions from Hardie's website refer to a "Score and Snap" knife as being the #1 recommended tool for making cuts......

Anyone know what this is or where to acquire one? Lowes doesn't carry one and noone seems to have heard of it. Guy @ Lowes said just to use a chop saw w/ coarse tooth blade & a dust mask vs. the $45 saw blade pitched by Hardie -- or he said use a really sharp box cutter......

Any info would be helpful. Getting underway in 2 days.....

The score and snap tool is most likely located in the tile department since that is where they stock and sell the hardi backer for tile guys can be found, it is much easier to use a chopsaw and skil saw for cutting hardi products

Chris

I would like to express my disappointment regarding James Hardie concrete fiber siding.
I live in Quebec Canada, where we have a north eastern climate of moderately warm and humid in the summer and briskly cold in the winter.
My main reason for choosing this product was maintenance free… and aesthetic.
The product was installed 3 years ago and as of today I am extremely disappointed in regards to my main reason. Maintenance free.

Suggested by the distributor at the time we did some touch up at each joint after installation. All touch up expose to the south/west sun light are extremely visible today. But worst is the paint pealing at the base of walls where we have a transition of siding to stones. According to the representative, this is normal due to the proximity of the stones…

Now they are asking me to send a sample of the siding that I will have to take from the house for paint analysis purpose. Do I really want to do their job and taking a siding of my house to get told some bs? Not really.

Let me know if you want to see pictures and I will be happy to do so.

Regards

Serge
Ps excuse my English- I am a French Canadian

I think I understand the problem you are having. I have Hardipanel siding on my house with Hardiboard for trim. Where there is a cut edge at the bottom of the trim that is exposed to moisture, it seems to wick it up especially if it is exposed to excessive dampness such as near the bottom of a downspout, near a spigot or if the edge contacts soil. Some of the Hardi Board started to delaminate at the bottom. I glued it back together.

You may have a similar problem because stone naturally attracts moisture and is probably touching the Hardiboard. I have a suggestion for you to try. Remove any peeling paint from the Hardi Board. Then, touch up the exposed areas with stain sealer. Stain sealer is a kind of varnish that will soak into the Hardi Board and help prevent it from absorbing moisture. You might want to apply a couple of coats to be sure it soaks in as much as possible. After it dries, repaint it to match the rest of the siding.

Take a look at where the Hardi Board is peeling. Does the edge of it come into contact with the stone? Is the stone frequently damp? You might need some kind of barrier between stone and siding to prevent wicking. Maybe you could slip a piece of vinyl "L" channel under the edge of the siding to protect it from the dampness. Or, possibly, you could apply a clear water sealer to the siding edge and to the stone where it makes contact. That should encourage faster drying.

Hope this helps.

Although I like the Hardie siding and have installed it on many houses, I don't think it is without some problems.
I have noticed that pieces that come in contact with long term moisture do tend to become soft and delaminate or separate.
Longterm exposure to the south sun - siding seams to shrink and open up about 1/8" at the butt joints.
Hardie is definitely a better product that wood, but one should expect some unexpected maintenance

All very good comments relating to the Hardi product. Hardi carries a 50 year warranty on the product that is transferable, HOWEVER in almost every question /comment posted thus far I see topics that appear to be items that would Void a claim to Hardi !

NER - 405 is the Bible when it comes to an install of this product and the first thing a Hardi representative will refer to if a warranty question comes up. This report is referenced in Hardi printed material, but unless you download the eighty or so pages you don't really develop an appreciation of how demanding this specification really is. Charts on wind resistance give a new meaning to the engineering that has gone into the proper install of the product.

Most contractors and homeowners will say " Oh Yeh, I saw that ", but you must realize your dealing with a fiber and cement material that does not like moisture. Not only will the material fail if not installed in accordance with NER - 405 and the Hardi Specifications -- You may void the warranty!

I use Stablecrete on a Hardi install at all cuts, joints or anywhere there is a possibility of high amounts of water/moisture accumulation. It reacts with the Alkali found in the cement to waterproof the material. It also gives a superior bond for any coating you will want. In the case where you have water splashing up onto a painted Hardi board, it may be that this moisture is causing the Alkali in the cement to migrate out to the surface of the board, collect on the backside of your coating causing it to Burn Off.

Wonderful, Expensive Product and a company to back it up, but it hates water ! Then again so does wood !

Glenn

I have been selling Hardie for the past five years, and have never filed a warranty claim on behalf of a customer. That being said, I have been in the unfortunate position of having to explain to homeowners why the product failed to meet their expectations. In every case, the root cause of failure can be traced back to one thing: A lack of education.
Whether it's the contractor, builder or homeowner that's uninformed is irrelevant. The person that should be knowledgeable is, simply, the one that NEEDS to be knowledgeable. By hiring a reputable contractor, you should be comfortably assured that recommended installation practices are being followed. If you're doing the install yourself, then make sure you know all the specifics. READ the instructions. Keep the siding 2" above the flashing. Keep the trim 6" above grade. Prime, seal, and paint cut edges.
Hardie is an awesome product. I would put it on my house. (I'd use a different trim material, though. HardieTrim is a bit too brittle for my liking.)

Chris,
I agree 100% about the trim. MiraTEC seems to work well for trim applications I've had. "Lack Of Education" -- Really!! All this time, I Thought that was what the spec was for? You should run for office!! Glenn

Absolutely, hands down, without question, I would recommend MiraTEC. The warranty, the choice of smooth or a woodgrain that matches the cedarmill design, the price (cheaper than primed pine), and the workability all make for an excellent product. I've had a piece sitting in a bucket of water in my office for almost two years now, and it doesn't show any signs of swelling. Not that you should use it in an environment like that, but you should be assured that IF YOU FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS, you'll be fine.

I'm looking at building a new home this spring and I am leaning towards a product called magnum board. Has anyone used this product or have any informationabout it. The reasons for selecting it is water resistance, mold and mildew resistance, flame resistance and it's strength over cement board. Any help about this profuct would be great.

a good reason not to use it----------------- is it has no approvals for siding fasteners

Georgia Tom, are you saying because it has not approved any type of nail or screw to fasten the sidng to the wall to stay away from it? Sorry for this responce but I don't quite understand no approvals for siding fasteners, could you elaborate.

Thanks.

what I am saying is that Magnum Board is not an approved substrate for hardie siding

I'm not talking about using the James Hardie board at all. I was wondering if anyone has used the magnum board siding instead of James Hardie board. I guess I should have been more clear in my previous post. Sorry.

I have installed Hardi-Board siding. We had this scissors like tool, that would eat away a small strip to cut the boards, with no dust and clean edges. It is brittle, as in you can't drop it or step on it, or pick it up by only one end, but if you are careful there will be no problems. On a house we worked on, we only broke a few, and cut them to use elsewhere.

Fiber cement shears , they work great ...much better than a saw

Has anyone in the North East installed JH siding directly to OSB without using Tyvex? It seems to be OK according to the installation guide but generally reading online ... it seems like a bad idea. RR

Its a bad idea to install any siding without a vapor barrier in any part of the country

Hello all, firsttimer here
I am currently building a house in Vancouver, BC. We will be using Hardi or Certainteed fibre-cement panels. Here on the 'Wet Coast' building bylaws require us to have our exterior finishing to be built as a 'rainscreen' system. Basically it will be fibre cement panel, 1/2" treated plywood furring strips, building paper/Tyvek then wall system.
My wish is to install the panels in 4x8 sheets with 3 or 4 inch battens at the butt joints. Has any or you done this on a rainscreen wall? My concern is the horizontal joints where there is no continuous backing (for wall drainage) will not be as moisture resistant as the vertical joints that are nailed over the furring strips. These furring strips are placed at 16" O.C.

For the most reliable results, you should obtain the longer Hardi-panels in order to avoid having horizontal joints. They can cause you headaches in the long term because the panels expand and contract as the temperature changes which could eventually lead to edge damage and water penetration.

If you have to use the 4'x8' panels, especially where there is so much precipitation, you might want to make a lap joint with some kind of structural support behind it such as a 2"x2" cross member to keep it structurally ridged. Don't forget that, especially in your wet environment, it's important to keep the edges of fiber-cement panels and trim above the soil and standing water to prevent them from being damaged.

I may consider instead of horizontal battens to go with a z-flashing extending form between the building paper and furring strips to overlap the lower sheet of fibre cement board. This way I can add more furring strips (closer than 16" O.C.) and still maintain the rainscreen drainage. Yes, I will be using as long a panel as is available. Thoughts?

Hardie recommends 2-1/4" nails galv 'headed' nails, anybody use finishing or box (smaller headed) nails?

I think z- flashing could work as long as it has a good amount of overlap on the bottom panel and under lapping of the top panel. You could probably use soft aluminum flashing and shape it into a very gradual z. It would be more durable than plastic. (Copper flashing is the most durable although expensive.) But, what ever you use, keep in mind that the edges of Hardi-panel and Hardi-boards tend to wick moisture. On the upper panel, you might consider sealing the edge and up both sides a couple of inches before installing it. A lacquer base primer will soak in seal well.

Allow enough gap between the panels for any expansion. Even with z-channel, there has to be room for movement. The longer the panel, the more it could move. My studs are 24" on center and I used Hardi-panel over Tyvek without a problem. So, your 16" center studs should be just fine. You just need rigid support behind joint and flashing to keep it from flexing in the wind and you guys have some powerful winds there sometimes.

For the purpose of nailing, think of Hardi-panel like it's drywall. It's a soft material and finishing nails will pull right through it. You have to be careful with even large headed nails because its easy to drive them too deep. This can be a problem if you use an air-nailer. If your Hardi-panels are to be installed by a contractor, make certain they know how to do it or they will be shooting nails through it. (I also recommend staying out of the house while they are installing it. If they miss a stud, the nails will go through the material like it doesn't exist and shoot through the house like bullets from a gun.) If they drive the nails too deep into the Hardi-panel, they won't hold it securely and can pull through just like with drywall.

For the horizontal joints, If there is sufficient z- channel overlap and under-lap AND your furring strip is wide enough to support both the upper and lower panel distortion, I would let the edges float. Nail the panels onto the studs where the nails will be covered by the battens. Nail the flashing through the under-lap where it will be covered by the panel.

Hardie vertical siding is available in 10ft. lengths to minimizing horizontal butt joints, when they are necesary keep them near the top so overhang heps to protect joint from elements. as shown on this house with 4 ft. overhangs

Anyone have any recommendations on specific paints, specifically low or no VOC's that you have had success over Hardie siding?  I am doing a job next week and would like to be able to recomment something to the customer.  It is not the first time I have used Hardie siding, but the first time the customer has been concerned with the "greenness" of the paint.

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Any paint, no matter how "green" takes energy to produce, energy to ship, energy to store, and energy to apply. Even "green" paint has a high carbon footprint by the time it gets to your house. The less paint you have to buy, the truly "greener" the product is. So to have the greenest possible paint, the best idea would to get the longest lasting and best coverage paint in large containers(like a 5 gallon bucket). The container can be reused instead of trashed, and not having to repaint as often will reduce the overall impact.

Durability > "green" marketing

It would be "geener" just to buy the pre painted hardie, as they buy in 55 gal recyleable drums, save on shipping, save on the painter making multiple trips to your job to apply it, no paint buckets to get rid of

We are using both low and Zero VOC paints from Sherwin Williams brand on the Hardie Trim and the indoors for our project.

Marcierizzo,

Can you furnish us your definition  [or a definitionof] a low-no Voc product? Curious about where that's written in the "Green Bible"

All very good points on the transport and packaging of the paint. The customer has already purchased the Hardie siding, so getting the pre-finished is no longer an option. As far as the low/no VOC's, I have yet to find this elusive "Green Bible" with all the answers. ;) When I do, I'm sure we will all have a good read. I have used Home Depot's interior paint, Fresh Choice. It does not have VOC's in the tint either. Thus making it a truly "No VOC" paint. Others claim to be low/no VOC's but then put traditional tint in it and thereby negating its claim. I was very happy with the Fresh Choice, but it is only interior.
Basically, I was trying to weigh the options of traditional paint vs. low/no VOC's. If the traditional paint lasts a significantly longer time, is it worth using it to decrease the manufacturing/shipping issues of having to repaint sooner. Hopefully that made since.

Thanks for the input.

Hardi Siding is a good product. Prefinished is the better option. If you are in a climate with large temperature changes you may want to limit chalked joints. Divide your wall with more trim pieces, similar to a batten board look. Long runs of siding butting end to end with chalked joints seem to pull apart over time. Break long runs up with a trim piece does help. I know this may be hard to visualize. 

The low VOC paints can be as durable as any other paint. I like the low VOC paint for inside painting because it has very little odor. For outside painting, it's not as important unless you are sensitive to volatile organic compounds like mineral spirits or turpentine. The amount of VOCs released into the atmosphere is pretty insignificant considering the lifespan of the paint. I have noticed also that low VOC paint doesn't seem to have as long of a shelf life as oil based paint.

As far as what type of paint can be used on fiber-cement board, I, myself haven't heard of a paint that won't work. If it's not primed, it will suck up paint like unprimed drywall which why you want to use a very good primer. As a plus, you can have the primer tinted. The right tint can enhance the color depth of the top coat and it will last longer because wear won't show as quickly.

Sometimes, the location of your house can be a factor in choosing a paint. If you live in a very humid climate where it rains frequently you may need an exterior paint that dries and hardens quickly as well as resists mildew. Latex and low VOC type paints take longer to dry. How long the paint wears has a lot to do with the amount and type of solids in it, usually clays and minerals. That's why a lifetime warranty paint tends to be thicker than a 15 year paint.

For the best results, decide what qualities you would like your paint to have and how much you can afford. (Some of it is very expensive) Then go to a reputable paint dealer. If you have any literature describing your fiber-cement board, take it with you. James Hardi isn't the only manufacturer. So, your paint dealer will most likely have factory recommendations for the best type of paint to use.

I am an  general contractor and would like to express my dissatisfaction with the James Hardie company and it's products. 

First off, the lap siding products are the most labor intensive of all siding products on the market.  It doesn't help that they have extremely poor quality control regarding dimensional integrity.  I'm currently working on a job where about 50% of the lap siding product needed to be re-cut at the ends because the factory cut was over 1/8" out of true square.  Needless to say, this will be my last job with James Hardie product.  They may be the largest fiber siding company but definitely NOT the best!  The concept is good and the product will last longer than wood, but it is basically cardboard dipped in cement which will not withstand a good hail storm.  I've seen hardie siding with holes in it due to hail!  Here in Texas, hail is big issue, and Hardie tries to suggest their product is safe from hail.  But if you read the warrantee closely, they basically take no responsibility if anything happens. 

In addition, they decided to change the primer recently and apparently didn't notify anybody including their sales rep!  This fiasco caused me to receive two different lots of lap siding with different primer on the same job!  Needless to say, the customer is pissed because I had to use mixed panels on the same wall of the house!  When I tried to contact James Hardie about this issue, they sent me some form letter saying the changed the primer due to technical advancement, but neglected to say what the "advancements" actually did for the customer!  It was obviously changed as a cost reduction.  Otherwise, they would have spent more effort getting the word out about the benefits.

Whatever you do, thing long and hard about using this product on your home.  The pre-painted version may be better, but the pre-primed stuff you can get from Home Depot of Lowes is not user friendly and may not be what you expect from their "fluffy" literature!

First-timer here, greetings all.  I have installed just about every type of siding and there is one I have not because the research I have done {JS Hardi Bd} suggests that the home owner seems to be entirely responsible for the warranty and not JS Hardi.   It's interesting looking at the posts on this forum seem to mostly contain comments about water intrusion, this is the most common problem with home construction and the most costly.  In my opinion,  why buy a product which is 1. labor intensive 2. water soluble 3. blind nailed {leaves bottom of panel loose or even floppy} 4. butt joints open {you can see the house wrap underneath} 5. not a closed system {butt joints, bottom lap joints can open with wind shearing up walls} 6. installation,  JS Hardi web-site,  the first thing they mention is proper handling of cutting tools, use electric tools with vacuum system, cut with wind blowing away from installer,  this put up a RED FLAG for health reasons!  On a prospective Bid Project {multile condominium re-side}  A homeowner expressed their concerns about the issues of the fibers released from cutting the JS Hardi board because many subs use the electric saws to cut because it is  less time consuming.. Also JS Hardi is in a multi-million dollar law suit in their Australian site for worker related health issues.  I work with my son and my brother and  felt the health issue was something to consider.  There are other products to consider, many times prospective clients did choose  JS Hardi solely for the fact they could  use the color of choice not available in other products.  MNSide

silica dust, which is common in many cement based products, you are supposed to wear a mask , but most don't.
Like most construction workers are supposed to wear safety goggles, ear protection, long pants, safety harnesses and so on and so forth , but most don't.

PT lumber had the same hazard warnings when is contained arsenic, but few wore masks.

Working around construction is dangerous business, workers need to take the time to read the labels and protect themselves.

When do people take responsibilty for their own actions or lack there of?

I'm sure many installers do become careless, we decided to be safe and avoid the cementboard products completely.  There are safer and better products that are not problematic to "capillary suction" caused by expansion and contraction.   Hardie roofing products "Hardie Shake, Hardie Slate" alledgedly are no longer on the market because of this.  Pending Lawsuits.   Better Safe Than Sorry,  I can live with this motto!

MNside;

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Hardie is a very over-rated material, especially when used as a skin in a sip for a structural component. All you have to do is look at the stuff and crumbles. You are also right on about the capillary suction, it happens in just hours to degrade the board.
When it comes to health issues with the hardie and other materials we tend to throw away the instructions and warning tags and start using the product ( me included)

Chris, unfortunately we had to bite the bullet when we decided not to sell and install JH because alot of people here in and around the Mpls. and south metro area have had it installed because of frequent Spring and Summer hail.  I haven't seen hail damage to JH but have seen water damage on lower course-lines by grade.  I wonder if it will become a problem like "masonite"  I certainly hope not, time will tell.  Have a good day Chris.  MNSide

Sounds like we're beating this dead dog to death! Unfortunate part is, that your Hardi rep. or a distributor,doesn't have or will not provide information that has been posted on this thread. Think of it like this : If ANY manufacturer, told the "whole truth and nothing but the truth", how much product would they sell?
 
In the case of Hardi, in particular; would you buy or install it after you spent 2 or 3 hours comprehending what NER 405 says, knowing full well ANY warranty claim would refer to it?

Try an install in a high speed wind area and take a good look at the wind speed tables as they relate to attachment requirements! A real unfortunate part of that is Architects and some Engineers, even with an understanding of the attach requirements, do not stand in a job to observe every nail driven.

If it was easy, anyone could do it!   Glenn

I have used Hardi Soffit and Hardi Panel (8x4) sheets as siding.   These products are excellent, and repel insects (carpenter bees) and animals (squirrels and woodpeckers) in situations where wood does not .   The soffit panels are very easy to put up with a helper, but not without; they sag a lot.  Also, use of a nail gun is OK, but should be backed up with screws or wide-head nails; the material can pull through if only a nail gun is used.  When you cut the material, it is (as mentioned above) necessary to paint the cut edge.

i worked for james hardie warranty division for 3 years. i would not recommend the product even to my enemy. some of the cons include that the product is not painted on all sided so that anything  that is left exposed will delaminate. if you live in a rainy,snowy,icy and high humidity area this product is not for you. i went from east coast to the west coast replacing,repairing and following weather specified codes to keeping the product to last longer.this product will not hold up to the 50yr warranty. on the average homes ,resorts,hospitals that have had this product have had to replace as little as 10%to as high as 100% of hardie products.i would recommend sticking with a weather resistant wood and follow any precedures with that product. overall james hardie will have a crew come repair,replace and install deteriorating siding.so if you dont mind someone working on your home every 2 to 5 years then go with this product. my money and time would not be wasted on this product.

there is a special gun that is used that shoots something similiar to a roofing nail to hold the product. if you have any questions let me know

Michael,

Two questions for you: 1. Have you had experiences you can share about wind speed requirements/ warranty claims in Hurricane prone areas where we have to meet a 130 MPH rating? 2 Are you in the witness protection program now?

Glenn

in response to your 2 questions. one i did not install hardie products south of kentucky. my responsibility was anything north of that state dealing in water,ice,and snow damage. what i have heard was that in the state of florida that it was one of the principle products used due to the area and its high frequencies of hurricanes. a material that is porous and can be snapped with a minumum of 20p of force i would leave that up to you if you so choose to. if i were looking for a product outside of wood it would have to be stone or brick.now the answer to your second question no im not in the witness protection program due to my first ammendment rights any an all of my statements are my personal opinions.

I just found this link about installing Hardie siding: http://www.100khouse.com/2009/02/25/home-slicker-instant-rainscreen-house-wrap/

I believe you need to flash the butt joints, if you see housewrap through a butt joint I think you got a lousy install.

I've actually replaced more than I've put on, seems the main problems are not priming/painting cuts and at least for prefinished, losing its finish because of water issues related to other failures (lack of kickouts, poor water table design, no drip caps, ect.)

Does anyone know if its compatible with aluminum flashing or coil stock, I thought it wasn't.

The house as shown will leak .........if thats the finished wrap job

why do you think so? have you heard of open joint rain screen systems?

If that is the finished wrap; the area where the felt paper meets the rain screen is running behind the rain screen, therefore is open at the top.

So any infiltration above that point will allow water to run behind the rainscreen.

It is a common mistake also made with improperly applied paper backed lath

i see what you are saying, i thought they were applying green lining all the way to the top.

This is my house.

A. We caulked the vertical seams after this and installed Z-flashing at horizontal joints as per the manufacturers instructions.

B. The top is capped to prevent water from entering at that point or getting behind the tar paper. The bottom is also left open to drain any water that gets into the rainscreen.

Having said this, I just found this post again while trying to determine if we should repeat this application. We are building a similar facade in our next project and looking to a Minerit HD (High Density Fiber Cement) panel that is much more durable and capable of being installed with an open joint rainscreen detail, similar to a commercial application. Caulking is no fun and does not turn out well aesthetically...

So any tips for painting MiraTEC, and/or installing it with Hardi-Plank?

I sided my house with Hardi Panel and also used Hardi Soffit and their trim boards a few years ago and found the results to be disappointing. You have to be ever so careful not to allow and edges to be exposed to continuous moisture. It has to be above grade or or it will absorb moisture. It also has to be protected around spigots and gutters to make sure it is never exposed to continual dampness. The trim boards will also absorb moisture if cut ends are left exposed.

That Hardi Soffit has been a nightmare. It's behaves like drywall and nails want to pull through it and I have had to fix it numerous times until I used a metal strip with the nails to support it. If you want something animal resistant, I recommend using metal soffit.

Hardi products do have good uses in the right environments. It's very fire resistant if you live in a dry area. It can allow you to get a house up and closed in very quickly and it does resist termites. But, don't use it where there is continual dampness. Perhaps they will come up with some kind of additive to make Hardi products completely water repellant through and through. That would certainly make them more useful.

Thank you for posting your experience with fiber cement materials.  That confirms my thoughts also.

Posted By Alton on 15 Feb 2014 10:18 AM
Thank you for posting your experience with fiber cement materials.  That confirms my thoughts also.

Alton,
My experience too, including Fibercement SIP skins become soft and pliable when they get too wet.

Maybe there is a difference between actual moisture on it and continual dampness. I've had Hardie soffits up for a couple years now which means two Pacific Northwest winters and they are doing fine. Still haven't painted or caulked the cut edges and there is no problem.

James Hardie cement board siding has been around for years, it started getting popular in west michigan about 12 years ago. I have been installing the product since it got popular. When it first became a "big thing" here in Michigan they did not have any install requirements. Then all these silly rules started coming along in order to help make the product last. Things like 2" gaps at roofing, 1/4" gaps above any trim, flashing behind butt joins and 6" minimum from grade. With all the requirement I noticed that the product did hold up better than without the install rules however in my opinion it is still an inferior product. Before I start criticizing the product I will give you a little background information on the manufacture. In the late 1930's James hardie came out with asbestos based products with the knowledge of the health risk, but supplied it anyway. It was the cats meow cause it was so strong but came with a great chance of health issues including death from cancer causing fibers getting lodged in the lungs. Since then they have removed asbestos but replaced it with silica. Silica can be found in almost all concrete based products however when put in a product that must be cut repeatedly, it posses a great health risk to installers. It has been studied and proven that silica dust has cancer causing properties. As far as longevity goes, I will not stand behind the product. I watch this product fail in almost every exterior application. Although it is very easy to install and pays a lot more than a vinyl product, I still feel obligated to inform homeowners of it's faults. It is basically drywall/Sheetrock for exterior use. If you pick it up wrong, it will break. If you drop it, it will break. Most people think cause it is concrete based that it is strong as rock, however this theory is dead wrong. The fact is, that it is a very fragile and heavy product. When installed, nailing on wall studs, it is still only weighing down your house and not adding any structural integrity or insulation value. To be fair the building department does not take siding into consideration for R-value in most cases. Hardie has a product called color plus, which is pre-finished and they claim it to be a finished product once installed without the need to do a field coat of paint. I have found more issues with this product than with the raw material that requires paint. The color plus comes with each piece being individually wrapped with a plastic type material to prevent scratching during shipment and handling. The idea behind this is to keep the plastic on until it has been cut and installed, then removed once nailed to structure. The problem is that the plastic falls off once a piece is moved to be cut. Once the plastic falls off, cut dust will stick to the product like glue and is extremely hard to remove, which leaves a chalky looking surface much like old aluminum siding. Another issue I have found with the plastic is that with the product being concrete based there is moisture in it, and this moisture want to get out. The plastic seems to be restricting the moisture from evaporating and gets trapped between the plastic and the material and gives the product a smell similar to cat urine. The color plus also seems to be wet and only dries once installed, which causes severe shrinking at butt joins. In my professional opinion cement board siding should not be used anywhere and anyone who claims otherwise just does not know any better, has drank too much James Hardie coolaid, or gets such a great deal on the cost they do it anyway just to make a buck. Don't believe what the Reps tells you, they get paid to pass the blame and sell it anyway. I can crap in a box and put a warranty on it, but you'll still be getting crap. I know what I said here is very bold but sometimes the truth hurts....please stay away from this product for your house, contractor health safety and your kids health. Go with vinyl, cedar, or Lp siding but remember all products have flaws, but Hardie has the most.

I have used hardie siding since 1995 on both commercial and residential products ,
They have always had installation instructions.
yes it is heavy and it is brittle. But I prefer the look compared to vinyl and like the stability vs wood.
I have Color Plus on my own personal home , the Color Plus siding in my area does not come with a plastic sheet.
I have installed on many projects and never had a call back

I'm guessing Michigan has an axe to grind with James Hardy.
Things like 2" gaps, movement spacing, flashing behind joints and 6" off the ground are all common sense items that apply to most siding.
Almost no siding has any insulation or structural strength.
All JH products come with a primer coat on all sides so shrink will be the same on all products. Shrink and expansion are the reasons for the 1/4" gap. If you apply on a hot humid summer day, don't leave any gaps. If you are applying at minus forty, 1/4" may not be enough.
As to the "wet" it may be that the siding was not stored correctly. Siding delivered to the site and sitting in the rain without proper protecting will absorbs some moisture that siding hung on a wall will not.

silica is a health concern and JH clearly documents this. It is only a concern during the cutting and that is why nibblers are recommended rather then power saws.

Certainteed fiber cement had some major issues in my area and pretty much screwed fiber cement as a whole, James Hardy is making a push to regain ground as LP Smartside is taking off like wildfire, but there not going to get anywhere. Fiber cement is such a pain to install by the book.

Hey Greentree - what issues do you have with the install?

FBBP,

Its not easy to work with, the plastic slip sheet is a pain, its cracked when nailing the corners. If a nail is overdriven they want you to add another, its not supposed to touch raw aluminum, a bummer when the roofer uses aluminum step flashing, with a 2" roof clearance youd have to bend and flash a coiled counterflash so you dont get blinded by shiny flashing. 2" clearance above a deck looks really stupid. If you trim out a window, you wont hit a stud since the trim covers your trimmer and king, hardie solution is "add a stud," not real practical. Its like carrying a noodle around when you pick a piece up, did i mention its a pain to cut and shape? I dont trust it by aluminum, aluminum is everywhere on a new exterior. Boring holes stinks, field cutting once its up is a pain, they're heavy, they seem to mar easily. You're working with cement based sticks, I mean that in itself is kinda ridulous.

I quit using it a long time ago, so admittedly maybe for some reason its become more user friendly but I've checked out new jobs by others and hear the same gripes, I switched to smartside (fingers crossed that doesnt turn into a hardboard fiasco) and am much happier. Maybe its gotten better, Certainteed once had predrilling nail holes in their manual, you cant get much worse than that.

If you like it great but I vote no.

I agree with most posters, and to FBBP, I have no axe to grind with anyone. I've used it on several projects since 2008, and I need to replace 20 SF on that project due to failure due to moisture (this is high on a wall & it is delaminating). Installers hate it; I dislike it, and have decided to refuse to use it on any upcoming projects. Especially since LP is making a good blind nailed product. I understand that the LP product uses Advantech as a base - Advantech might be trademarked by Huber, but my understanding is that LP actually developed the product for siding use (on LPSS) and licensed Huber to use it as sheathing. As anyone who is familiar with Advantech knows, it's the most bulletproof sheathing and underlayment availabke, and the best I've seen in my career of over 40 years.

I find the preference for LP interesting. During the 80 and 90's LP had the market around Calgary sewn up. Non vinyl siding was 90% LP. Then in the late 90's people started to notice how bad it faded and some delamination. Up here almost all LP siding was installed with the H clips on the butt joints. The clips where colour fast so the stood out like a sore thumb against the faded siding.
Now JH has almost the total market. Interestingly enough, most JH siding is installed with LP trim ;-).

Not sure why there would be moisture delam. once its on the wall unless there is moisture migration through the wall. Especially when its at least primed on all four sides. Unless JH has a different product down there?

We don't use aluminum flashing. Around here every thing is galvanized or prefinished metal.
LP still has to be set 1" off the roof. Yes that is only half of what JH calls for but the gap is still there.

FBBP,
Smartside has only been available since early 2000, or at least thats when the marketing started in my region. You're saying Canada had Smartside available in the 80's or was it called something else?

LP settled the class action in 1996, ultimately agreeing to pay $500 million to owners of homes sided with Innerseal. For homeowners to receive payment, their siding must have been installed before 1996, and they had to have filed claims by the end of 2002. The class-action case has now been closed; going forward, any homeowners with failing Innerseal siding must file a regular warranty claim -- assuming their siding is still within the product's original 25-year warranty.

It seems like people in regions that experience freeze/thaw cycles don't like fiber cement siding. In the southeast it's wildly popular.

Wait til it starts to fail.

Greentree - LP has marketed CanExcel for many years and still markets it. This was the failed produce. My point was not that smartside was a bad product but rather that once a brand name is blemished, the market takes forever to forgive them and give them another chance even with a new product. That said maybe watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-3JKhTPISI
No idea if other issues are at play in that video but there still seems to be some concern with smart side.

Chris - thanks for the info.

Jelly - we have lots of freeze thaw cycles but don't see any problem with JH.

Bob I - curious as to why you would have just 20 feet of failure. Does high up on the wall equate with "bottom of pile? Was the siding stored on or in contacted with the ground for a prolonged period of time? Either on site or at the suppliers? Does high up equate with a wall and ceiling joint that is leaking moist air in behind the cladding? (You don't sound like the kind of builder that would miss that) I'm just trying to rationalize why 20 feet out of a large mill runs of siding would fail. You indicate failure is due to moisture. If it is surface moisture, would not a much bigger area be impacted? If moisture damage occurred after install, how did it get in? was the product damaged? JH is primed all four sides. Where joints not properly detailed and moisture weeped in from the ends? Not saying any of these where the cause, just having a hard time understanding the situation.

If you do some web research, you find a ton of complaints about both products. Almost all are either fading or delam/rot/fall apart related. Some people swear at JH and switch to LP. Some go the other way. I think both products are very open to human error. A large part of the problem with both products are solved with proper back venting. And of course, at sometime, installers are going to have to learn all wrb and flashings have to lap top over bottom, not the other way. Neither product will do well just nailed into sheathing. Maybe they got away with nailing vinyl that way but these heavier products that do move with temperature and humidity, need to be nailed into the studs. You are better off not caulking mid wall joints. Back flash with metal or wrb.

I had to inspect a couple of JH failures this summer. Don't know if both were done by the same installer but the symptoms were the same. Both were nailed well above the nail line and both had over exposure, that is, the lap did not come down far enough. One had all the flashings (drip) installed over the wrb allowing water to get in and drain over the concrete basement wall into the basement frost wall starting mould and rot in the finished wall.

If anyone has definite failure mechanism for either product, I would be most interested in hearing about them.

we have an HRV exhaust on the (east) wall which exhausts air and moisture; the delaminating cement siding is 7' above that. We're trying a different exhaust which should push the air beyond the wall, so that ideally should solve the issue. My gripe is not that the paint is peeling (it isn't, but that would be understandable) but that the siding is failing apart in a situation where it shouldn't. We were careful to follow all the manufacturer's instructions.

We had a long conversation with one excellent siding contractor who is going to stop installing it due to the cancer causing properties. (I've talked to siders who have used shears, but disliked the method.) I also dislike the weight and difficulty of installing it. The fact that the previous poster found a problem due to a minor difference in exposure is further evidence that it is not a product I want to stand behind. I've never had a problem with any other siding due to minor exposure issues or moisture issues; why deal with such a fussy product when there are better alternatives?

i was also searching for the same.. Thanks for clearing my doubt.

Hardie has been the industry standard in my area for almost 20 years. Before that it was the LP but the class action law suit inspired the shift to Hardie. LP has improved their product and it's still around too. I think Hardie is going to be the next big class action lawsuit that will never happen. Reason being is it says right in the instructions to back vent but nobody does. So if we do see failures in the future I bet it will be on the installation not the product. My new house is entirely open joint cladding (3/4" back vent, 1/4" joints) and the areas getting Hardie panels will be cut to fit then pre painted on all six sides. To cut it either use double cut shears or hold your breath and stand up wind from the saw.

I have only heard good things about James Hardie concrete fiber siding. It's hard to install, but virtually indestructible and will last a lifetime. It never faces and is extremely weather resistant. I got some installed from conservation construction of texas and it's looked the same since the day i installed it 5 years ago.

Posted By timmy55 on 13 Aug 2018 11:29 PM
I have only heard good things about James Hardie concrete fiber siding. It's hard to install, but virtually indestructible and will last a lifetime. It never faces and is extremely weather resistant. I got some installed from conservation construction of texas and it's looked the same since the day i installed it 5 years ago.

timmy55,
I like Hardie I have the prefinished lap siding on my own home, but just last week I saw CELECT PVC siding and was impressed , it is light weight , easy to cut ,prefinished and has end interlock laps to keep out water , if I did mine again I would use the PVC

I have now watched many Youtube videos on sheathing /exterior siding /Hardie - Cement Board use/Wraps & liquid wraps. I'd like your opinion on reasonable solution for a new project.

https://www.sutton.org/images/Watercolors.jpg

I'd like to enclose the two right side bays of this house to provide a storage area. The space will not be conditioned and the street and gulf side walls need to be installed as 'blow-out' walls.

We want to enclose the area using cement board on the exterior to have a durable product. The question is what kind of underlayment to use that will protect against water incursion/etc. without being overkill.

Having read and watched Austin Builder, Matt Risinger's blog and video on "Delta Vent SA Review – Peel & Stick Housewrap" I thought that might be a way to go so I asked a local builder about this layup:
1. 2x4" 16 inch OC framing of wall panels
2. 1/2" plywood sheathing (is pressure treated more expensive?)
3. weather resistant barrier [Peel & Stick housewrap]
(recommend Delta Vent SA made by Cosella-Dorken or TYVEK RainGuard)
4. 3/4" rigid foam board with radiant barrier foil
5. rain screen (for air gap}
6. Hardie plank (siding)

His reaction was not positive, he hasn't seen that before. I explained I was trying to prevent water incursion/rot such as has occurred on almost all the stucco siding on the house. He suggested using DUROCK and Tyvek.

It makes me wonder if I'm being nutso overkill for this space.

Having seen Risinger's recent TEMCO videos - perhaps an option could be :
1. sheathing
2. Temco ExoAir 230 liquid barrier
3. some Rain Screen product
4. Hardie Plank

THis is a southern coastal build with heat and humidity, add harsh coastal condition and you've got this project. I'd appreciate any comment and suggestion you might make for a durable but not overkill design.

Thanks;
Jim Sutton
Navarre, Florida

cmkavala -

IS that CELECT PVC siding subject to warping? I suspect like PVC deck planking that it fades.
Jim