I'm hoping to put in solar panels. I have a fairly large roof, strongly oriented to the south. I'm in seattle, so not the world's sunniest spot, and we have a lot of gray/rain, but i'm told it could be an effective area. I'm wondering if there are other seattle/vancouver ites who have put in solar and if there are any contractors you would recommend.

I'm in Renton.

The following refers only to photovoltaics. A strictly thermal (e.g. hot water) system will have payback about anywhere.

The following refers only to photovoltaics:
Have designed, built and installed solar systems for space and aircraft. Even though I could diy any solar system for surplus costs, still not worth my effort in this climate and geography.

Partly due to my own location - lots of trees, bigger savings in the summer having the shade than I'd gain in cutting them down to get sunlight. In 40 years, have turned the AC on maybe a total of 10 days.

Not sure of CityLight rates, but out here on PSE there is no net metering, let alone big payout for on-site generation, big downer.


I do have a small 200W solar array in storage, which I haul outside on good days when I want to test a MPPT circuit out or similar without firing up a simulator. To me, not even worthwhile permanently installing outside to chance getting broken by a falling tree limb during a windstorm.
If putting in solar would make you 'feel good', then go ahead by all means, very long time payback if ever, esp if not 100% DIY.

Have a co-worker that lives outside Albuquerque, his DIY photovoltaic system leaves him with about a $2K per year net INCOME and no electric or heating bill. Really worthwhile DIY in that type location.

Without net metering PV doesn't much pay ANYWHERE there's a grid. Net-metered at time-of-day wholesale can be quite good return in places with real air-conditioning loads. Net-metered at residential retail usually only pays in very high utility rate areas with reasonable amounts of sun, or moderate priced electricity in extremely sunny areas. (I'm guessing that your buddy in Albuquerque is net metered at spot wholesale &/or has a VERY big array, if his net output is paying him $2K/annum.)

Seattle may not be the sunniest place, but it's not as bad as you might think. Summertime dew points are quite low (very low haze), and summer temps are well bounded, increasing the insolation and efficiency factors for PV when the sun DOES shine. At 47 degrees north latitude the June/July peak season days are pretty long as well. November through April may be a write-off, but the summertime output (nearly) makes up for it compared to the annual output of many places further south (and much further east).

Still, rare is the house where solar (PV or thermal) is the next-most-cost-effective way to reduce purchased energy use or lower the carbon footprint of the place. Drainwater heat recovery heat exchangers downstream of the main shower have much better "payback", as does air-sealing the house, insulating the foundation, and spot-insulating, installing all high efficiency lighting under time of day or occupancy sensor control, insulating all hot water distribution plumbing to R4 or better, sealing & insulating furnace ducts, replacing any remaining single-pane windows with something U0.34 or lower, etc. You can buy quite a bit of the above for the (un-subsidized) $5-10KUSD of a 50% of annual use hot water heater or the first peak-kilowatt of PV, delivering far greater impact. But those factors aren't at all obvious in a drive-by...

I s'pose it all comes down to what your goals are.

but out here on PSE there is no net metering, let alone big payout for on-site generation, big downer.

PSE does have net metering with an annual true-up sometime in Spring, which allows you to use up whatever credits you may have generated in the Summer. The payout for PV varies between $0.15 and $0.54 / kWh generated.

If you consider Federal tax credits and state pay-outs, payback in WA state is about 9 - 11 years. Without, it's more like 25 or 30, if you disregard the cost of money.

Re: The payout for PV varies between $0.15 and $0.54 / kWh generated. I wish!
In practicallity, getting more than 8 cents would be a big deal, and, you would need to be the equivalent of one of the first on a chain letter. Typical 'feel good' results of a 'green law' passed in 2006 in WA.


PSE and WA law fine print: e.g.:
Not more than a total of one hundred kilowatts shall be aggregated among all customer-generators participating in a generating facility under this subsection;
and,
On April 30th of each calendar year, any remaining unused kilowatt-hour credit accumulated during the previous year shall be granted to the electric utility, without any compensation to the customer-generator.

You're quoting a section of the RCW that limits each individual installation "customer" to less than 100 kW of generating power.

The current maximum subscription amount is 11.2 MW, due to double in a few years and not even close to being full.

Private customers receive a minimum of $0.15 / kWh up to $0.54 / kWh depending on your equipment. You can also sell your "green" rights for an additional $0.02 / kWh

Community solar projects pay investors back at double the private rates: up to $1.08/kWh.

April 30 was selected in order for net generators to exhaust their Summer-generated credits over Winter.

misha.seattle-

I am always a proponent of using a computer model such as PVWatts Version 2 to answer questions like you asked.  (Or if you can't get PVWatts Version 2 to work, try PVWatts Version 1 which is much easier to use.)  Both are free.  I found PVWatts V2 to underestimate the actual power that my panels generate (See http://www.residentialenergylaborat...se_pv.html for measured results compared with model results.)  These models will provide you with a monthly estimate of the energy that PV panels will generate.  You would need to compare those results with your monthly electric energy usage.  Then, if you might be interested in generating more energy than you are using, you need to determine the payout for excess electricity generated over a year.  ICFHybrid says "The payout [by PSC] for PV varies between $0.15 and $0.54 / kWh generated," which I would consider a fairly high rate.  

It is interesting how variable the payouts are for excess PV energy generated by home-based PV systems in terms of geographic area, and sometimes in time.  I pay $0.10/kWh for electricity, but am paid $0.03 for excess that I put back on the grid here in southern Colorado.  In some respects, it is fair that I am paid less for what I provide because it requires an investment by the utility to account for the fact that what I provide is intermittent, although it does approximately peak with usage.  In the next town north, they pay nothing.  In Ontario, Canada they pay $0.802 (Canadian) per kWh for PV generated electricity.  Germany pays 0.4301 euro per kWh.  You certainly cannot encourage PV panel plants to be built in the U.S. with low payback rates for excess power. 
 
Lee Dodge
http://www.residentialenergylaboratory.com
in a net-zero source energy modified production house

Then, if you might be interested in generating more energy than you are using, you need to determine the payout for excess electricity generated over a year.

In WA, the payout is made on ALL electricity generated by your PV or wind, whether you use it yourself or it goes back out into the grid as excess.

EXAMPLE: You have a 4.8kW grid-tied array of made-in-Washington PV panels and inverters, which qualify for the $0.54 / kWh payout.

You will generate about 5,000 kWh of energy - annually. Your house probably uses more than that - say 12,000 kWh annually.

How much is your 5,000 kWh you generated worth?

1. It's worth about $550 in residential rate electricity you didn't have to purchase @ $0.11 / kWh
2. You get a check for $2,700 - all the energy you generated X $0.54 / kWh.
3. You can sell your "Green Energy" bragging rights for another $0.02 / kWh - $100

TOTAL ANNUAL VALUE - $3,350.

Cost of installation - $35,000
(LESS) Fed Tax Credit ($10,500)
NET cost $24,500

$24,500/$3,350 = 7.3

That's less than 8 years to pay back.

Wow, that is a very attractive payback in Washington state.  I wonder about settng up on the other (east) side of the mountains, so that 4.8-kW system might be generating more like 8000 kWh or more annually.  Almost begins to sound like a business proposition, with "free" home electricity plus a check for $4480 per year.  A key aspect would be what long-term guarantees are associated with the rates from the utilities.   

Lee Dodge
http://www.residentialenergylaboratory.com
in a net-zero source energy modified production house

Almost begins to sound like a business proposition, with "free" home electricity plus a check for $4480 per year.

Unfortunately, government had to drive this, not the utilities. There are a few limitations that are designed to prevent this from being a business proposition, like a $5,000 per year cap to individual owners, however, that doesn't prevent one from doing exactly what you mentioned. East of the Cascades, the payback time would be even less.

Originally, the program was capped at $2,000 and it expired in 2014, but it has now been extended to 2020 and the cap increased to $5,000 per year.

After that, it is anyone's guess, what will happen with the legislation, but once you make it to payoff, you have a paid-for generating plant that never needs fuel. I am ordering the Made-in-Washington panels because they are paying close attention to improving failure modes and durability These panels may very well last 75 or 100 years.

Everyone seems to be quite experienced in solar system.

If you have a large roof, I think you can buy directly to the manufacturers, whose price will be cheaper than the distributors.

One customer in Wisconsin bought 20 pcs of 280W solar PV panels from me, and he was quite satisfied with the working of the solar PV panels.

If you need my help, please contact me. And I will supply you with competitive price

Warranty: 2 years for the panels. 10 years of 90% efficiency, 25 years of 85% efficiency.