Not all vinyl is created equal. uPVC is a better process to which vinyl is extruded and turned into window frames. uPVC window frames must have steel frames in order to support larger windows. The steel frame sits in a center channel of the uPVC.

There are advantages to uPVC/vinyl but the disadvantage is that vinyl expands and contracts quite a bit with temperature changes.

Wood with aluminum clad windows are strong just by their use of materials and see very little expansion and contraction with temperature changes. The disadvantage with wood/aluminum clad is the wood is susceptible to decay, water and UV rays and additional maintenance.

So, with that being said, what material do you prefer?

wood and aluminum. glossy, glass smooth vinyl always looks cheap to me, no matter how good and expensive the window is. Plus I like the options of painting or staining the interior. I understand you can get laminated vinyl....but it is just not the same.
Extruded aluminum vs roll form would be my selection our of those choices. Extruded can be had from companies such as Marvin, Eagle, and Kolbe & Kolbe. All 3 also offer triple pane glass, with the Eagle windows offering a revised, theramlly broken frame using Fibrex for much improved energy ratings and water resistance, at a decent price (similar to Inline fiberglass numbers). The best choice would be fiberglass exterior and wood interior similar to the Integrity, however the options and energy performance are just not quite there.

Here is one article that has nothing good to say about vinyl/PVC

PVC WINDOWS

Some claim that PVC windows have a 20-year lifespan in the desert southwest. At which time they need to be replaced. Is that true?

I would say that aluminum clad resists better than PVC. UV rays don't harm wood, and if the paint bleaches out you just paint over. Water does not touch wood with a proper cladding.

Posted By Extra on 04 Jun 2012 08:14 PM
I would say that aluminum clad resists better than PVC. UV rays don't harm wood, and if the paint bleaches out you just paint over. Water does not touch wood with a proper cladding.

I agree with you on the fact that aluminum does better than PVC when subjected to harsh UV. Where I disagree is your statement about UV and wood. The UV rays DOES harm wood, it cause it to dry rot, split and warp. Come to Arizona and you will see the effects of UV on wood.

Posted By Lbear on 04 Jun 2012 11:49 PM

Posted By Extra on 04 Jun 2012 08:14 PM
I would say that aluminum clad resists better than PVC. UV rays don't harm wood, and if the paint bleaches out you just paint over. Water does not touch wood with a proper cladding.

I agree with you on the fact that aluminum does better than PVC when subjected to harsh UV. Where I disagree is your statement about UV and wood. The UV rays DOES harm wood, it cause it to dry rot, split and warp. Come to Arizona and you will see the effects of UV on wood.

The "wood" windows that I have are clad with aluminum on the outside, so the only UV that reaches the wood has to pass through three layers of glass and a low-e coating, all of which tend to block some shorter wavelength UV radiation. I suspect that this choice of materials is typical of many modern wood windows.

I have to say I'm leaning towards High Quality upvc. Yes I know it's manufacturing process leaves a lot to be desired and when weighted up againest the life span impact of using wood not to mention the labour and monotony involved in painting. home bar furniture

Clad windows require no maintenance. I like the look and warm feel of wood inside.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 24 Jun 2012 11:04 AM
Clad windows require no maintenance. I like the look and warm feel of wood inside.

Wood on the interior does look nice but over time don't you have to re-stain the wood due to weathering?

If you forget to close a window during a rainstorm, the uPVC will be fine but with wood, it can sustain damage unless dried quickly. Right?

A proper finish will prevent the wood from absorbing the water and raising the grain. Of course, mistreatment like repeatedly letting the wood get wet will take its toll. As soon as the wood comes in the house, I get it pretreated with Daly's Benite. Glad I did because I can't be there all the time and workers keep leaving doors and windows open, even if rain is approaching. Wood windows and doors have gotten wet with no ill effects and they don't even have the finish on yet. I don't expect to have to redo them before 15 or 20 years.

Stained wood does require more maintenance over time, but it's not as bad as having to varnish your boat, for example. I have some big sills right where people will want to put drinks down, so I think I will finish those with a granite slab.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 24 Jun 2012 11:50 PM
Stained wood does require more maintenance over time, but it's not as bad as having to varnish your boat, for example. I have some big sills right where people will want to put drinks down, so I think I will finish those with a granite slab.

Granite would be much better than wood but engineered stone that looks like granite would be even more resistant to moisture.  Condensate from cold drinks can form rings on porous materials such as real granite.  Sealing and resealing granite will increase the chances that water rings can be removed.

You're right, much as I hate putting unguents on stone, I am going to be very attentive to sealing those sills.

Either that or serve drinks without ice. :-)

I plan on using scraps from my wood flooring as the sills on the deep window openings. then I will simply stain/finish the sills with the window. A couple coats of a good penetrating sealer will not let any moisture into the wood. I will take the wood look of wood over the glossy, cheap, plasticy look of vinyl/pvc/upvc windows any day. Plus they paint up a lot nicer if that is your thing.

Here are some pics of the Intus cutaway on both the uPVC and alum/wood casements. The density of the wood is the thickest I have ever seen for a window profile. Must be old growth lumber. Both of them have triple gaskets:








Below is a Pella Triple Pane Window with the blinds between the glass option:




Intus does not seal the glazing to the frame and uses a compression based system where the glass floats within the frame. This prevents failures between the glazing and framing due to differing expansion rates of glass and uPVC.

I'm surprised at what looks like a solid wood thermal bridge from inside to outside in the upper one.

wood is susceptible to decay, water and UV rays and additional maintenance.

I would say some woods. Something like Ipe is pretty much impervious.

I found this info on PVC windows:

In general, vinyl windows install the same as other flange-type windows, although the installer must take into account vinyl’s high rate of thermal expansion.

A 6-foot-wide window can expand as much as 5/16 inch from 0°F to 100°F. To prevent problems, It is best to leave a 1/8 - to 1/4 -inch gap between the window and siding or wood trim (more in cold weather, less in hot). Good detailing of this joint is especially important with stucco, which can crack if set too tightly against the window or leak if the caulk joint fails.

Thermal expansion can also cause window sash to bind in hot weather if the rough opening is too small to accommodate the movement. And in very cold weather, some vinyl windows can bow inward due to temperature differences on either side of the window. Sturdy extrusion profiles with metal reinforcing can help prevent this. PVC (Vinyl) window warpage can be controlled by embedding a steel or aluminum bar inside the window frame. A related concern is sagging of the sill during hot weather— vinyl starts to soften and distort at about 165°F, a temperature easily reached on the surface of a dark building in direct sun. To prevent sagging, some manufacturers reinforce the sill, and all recommend specific shim spacing under the sill.

What would be a good product to use between the 1/4" gaps that would allow for continuous movement but still seal well?

What would be a good product to use between the 1/4" gaps that would allow for continuous movement but still seal well?

How does the manufacturer say the windows should be installed?

Posted By ICFHybrid on 22 Sep 2012 10:35 PM

How does the manufacturer say the windows should be installed?

They recommend Tremco/illmod 600 polyurethane joint sealant in addition to proper flashing and tape. They also recommend leaving a 3/8" - 5/8" gap on all 4 corners of the windows.

Here is the install:

Intus Install

I talked to a local resident who stated that some type of rodent is eating away his exterior wood framed windows. It could be a pack rat or typical desert mouse but he thinks it's a rat of some type. It's literally gnawing away at the wood frame, trying to make entry I guess.

In the harsh Arizona climate, in terms of materials, exterior wood does not do so well out here as some people think. I even originally thought that because of the lack of rain, wood should last forever out here but the opposite is true. The suns intense heat & UV, dry air, and critters (termites, desert rats) will do a number on wood.

I never seen or heard about exterior wood framed windows being eaten away by rodents but there is a first time for everything. 

There are a lot of different concepts and issues being discussed here.

There is a fairly significant difference between a "standard" vinyl window, as typically found in the U.S., and a uPVC window.

I'm sure plenty of information is available on the internet about uPVC, but in a nutsheel, the u means unplasticized.