Hi Folks,
We are building an ICF house (think R22-25 walls, R49 attic) in Olympic Valley Ca (North Lake Tahoe) and we will appreciate your help as we are shopping for windows.

Our winter climate is very cold, and blustery. While our summers are warm we are more interested in winter performance. Our elevation is 6500'. Please let us know where we can find an objective review of the best performing windows (U < 0.2? for the entire window+frame). Also, if you have a favorite, please let me know what it is and why.
Thanks, Steve

Hi Steve,

We are breaking ground on a house in New Hampshire (Jackson 03846 at 1400') this spring and have been extensively researching windows lately. While we're at a lower elevation and I'm sure receive less snow, it's cold and windy, climate zone 6a. Disclaimer: I'm a building newbie, but have been doing a lot of research.

What I've gathered so far is that there is no perfect window, there are pro/cons to all brands and budget will certainly play a part. There is also an argument that nice double pane or affordable triple pane make more sense than the super high end triple pane from a cost/benefit analysis. You may also hear that bumping up the R values of your wall/attic would be a better first step. Anyways...

We've narrowed our top two contenders to these companies based on price, features, and local/regional availability through dealers:
Intus uPVC via Maine Green Building Supply
Alpen 525 series via Pinnacle Window Solutions

Hope this helps and will be curious to see what others think.

Brian

HI Brian
I've used the Serious/Alpen windows in two jobs, and plan to use the Intus this year. I think the Intus vinyl window has better U values than the Alpen at a lower or at least similar cost to the 525; not sure where the Intus wood or clad units fall pricewise. I have worked with Maine Green Building as well as Pinnacle; both excellent companies to deal with. I think the Intus gaskets and operating mechanism are head & shoulders above all the American made windows. I've also used Paradigm triple glazed (also made in ME); the cost of the Intus compares very favorable with Paradigm.

I assume you are building a superinsulated house? Jackson is as challenging an environment as you will find in NH (I've built on a north view lot in Glen so I know), so you'll want (read "need") to stay close to Passive House principles - although not necessarily R values - to end up with a comfortable draft free house that you can heat economicallly.

Hi Steve,

Are you located in the bay area? I have just found a local place that makes triple pane tilt/turn windows from Italy. They have excellent hardware, and they seem more aesthetically pleasing then others. Also, they have spent quite a bit of effort to integrate hidden rolling shades in to the designs. There showroom is quite extensive. However, if you need the windows soon, then it is the same lead time as others from europe 10-15 weeks.

I am getting a quote now for thermally broken aluminum windows with triple pane and hidden screens. I have about 420 sq ft of windows right now, but my architect is probably planning to specify more. They have wood, wood clad aluminum, upvc, aluminum, aluminum clad wood, steel, and maybe others.

I saw that we can't post directly any longer, so just PM if you are interested.

eugene

Stick with the name brand and recognized windows, the ones used and spoken about on GBA. Be careful of potential Chinese made "triple pane" windows, they are out there and woe is you if you end up buying them.

LBear,

Are you suggesting that I am referring to Chinese made windows? If a window brand is only used because it is recognized by the community, then how does it get introduced to the community. I guess by the way you do things. Everytime a window topic comes up, say Intus is the best, and the American windows, and whatever are terrible. You have been pushing Intus windows like you are a shareholder, but they are not main stream windows. If I search the internet for Intus, I find that you are the main source of the many referrals about how great they are, and just recently, there have been postings about their elongated schedule. So, if you believe your statement, you should stop promoting Intus, because it is only a recognized brand from a select number of individuals, who keep posting over and over and over again. Also, why do you mention Chinese windows? Please don't just throw random worthless drivel with no basis.

eugene

Posted By eugenep on 08 Apr 2013 07:20 PM

LBear,

Are you suggesting that I am referring to Chinese made windows? If a window brand is only used because it is recognized by the community, then how does it get introduced to the community. I guess by the way you do things. Everytime a window topic comes up, say Intus is the best, and the American windows, and whatever are terrible. You have been pushing Intus windows like you are a shareholder, but they are not main stream windows. If I search the internet for Intus, I find that you are the main source of the many referrals about how great they are, and just recently, there have been postings about their elongated schedule. So, if you believe your statement, you should stop promoting Intus, because it is only a recognized brand from a select number of individuals, who keep posting over and over and over again. Also, why do you mention Chinese windows? Please don't just throw random worthless drivel with no basis.

eugene

I have over 1,300 posts and I discuss all range of topics, not just windows. You have only made 8 posts on this forum and are pushing a window that nobody heard of and you are asking people to PM you about these said windows. It is reasonable suspicion to believe you are a sales person looking to make sales deals on the forum.

Apparently you don't visit sites like Green Building Advisor but there are hundreds of professional green building experts on that site and they recommend and use Intus windows A LOT, along with other European and Canadian triple pane windows. In the green building circle Intus is a highly respected and highly used window manufacturer. Intus Windows were just used in the states first ever PassivHaus in Connecticut.

Full disclosure; are you a sales person and what brand of main stream "Italian" windows are you promoting?

LBear,

I didn't even mention a window brand, so how can I be pushing a brand no one heard of. That is totally stupid. Are you saying that only windows made in Lithuania are valid windows, that they don't make windows in other countries like Italy, Germany, and France. Get a life.

You are a dick. I am not a sales person. You are making some erroneous assumptions. I have looked at many of your posts, and from what I gather, many people on this forum think you are an ass.

I just checked on GBA, and many of the listings of Intus are again from a few select individuals which skews the whole picture. The maine guys are pushing pretty hard, and they have a vested interest because they are suppliers. Most of the other listings I saw were all comparing against price with performance from Intus' website, but not that people I saw are installing them as you say.

I am not pushing a window. I asked if he was local, and I suggested that he go to the store. You are pushing crap onto people over and over again. You push your Intus crap onto people, and they can't even see it. They have to rely on your posturing and evangelical preachings about how great they are. You yourself said you hadn't even seen it before claiming they were the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I am not a sales person because i made one post about other windows other than your holy grail, Intus, please get off your high horse.

I actually contemplated Intus because of one of your posts, but you look like the salesman. Anytime, someone asks for more information, you just clam up. I just looked at your Intus price comparison from march, 2012, and it is totally bogus. You are comparing wood clad aluminum windows against upvc, and then claiming that they are so much cheaper. When many people mention that, you still don't provide a number for the wood clad aluminum. I talked with Intus at Green Build Exp in SF in Nov, and they told me the cost is about double for wood clad aluminum, so there goes your awesome price savings. They also said their screen was not that well designed, and they didn't have much to show at their booth, and the people working the booth didn't want to talk to people. No visitors were at their booth, and they still didn't want to talk to me.

If I was pushing a window, I would've probably pushed Zola. I talked to Florian for 20 minutes at green build expo, and he was very eager to talk to me, and tell me about the differences between his windows and companies like Intus. He admitted that Intus was cheaper at uPVC, but not so price competitive at other frame materials. I also might push Bieber. I went with the local rep Arnaud Ancenay, and he spent an hour with me at a house in Atherton to show me their windows. he also described some possibilities about why their windows are better than Intus, like the hidden hinge, and new improved locking mechanisms.

However, you are just making worthless statements as always because you love to hide behind your monitor.

I don't even consider Intus now because you keep going on and on and on about how great they are, it makes me feel even like there must be something wrong with them.

The funny thing. I don't even know the brand name of the Italian windows. I went to a local store, and I looked at some windows in person. Heaven forbid that I actually saw something that I could touch, something that I could see, so I could evaluate some things like quality, beauty, and features. I saw someone else in California was looking for windows, so I unfortunately made the stupid suggestion to go to a store and look at them, and now I am accused of being a sales person of Chinese made windows.

Seriously, get off of your pedestal. Stop promoting your Intus windows, and quit making false accusations.

I can ask you the same thing:

Full disclouser: are you a sales person and why do you constantly promote Intus windows over and over and over again?

Well said

Posted By steve burke on 06 Apr 2013 09:08 PM
Hi Folks,
We are building an ICF house (think R22-25 walls, R49 attic) in Olympic Valley Ca (North Lake Tahoe) and we will appreciate your help as we are shopping for windows.

Our winter climate is very cold, and blustery. While our summers are warm we are more interested in winter performance. Our elevation is 6500'. Please let us know where we can find an objective review of the best performing windows (U < 0.2? for the entire window+frame). Also, if you have a favorite, please let me know what it is and why.
Thanks, Steve

Steve,

Why don't you do yourself a favor and determine what window specification would perform best in your area, rather than blindly asking "which window is best"? For example, there is a tradeoff between high solar gain windows that will allow more passive solar gain but at the expense of slightly higher U-values, and low solar gain windows that will restrict solar gain but allow slightly lower U-values. The advantage for the high solar gain windows would be more dramatic if your emphasis is on winter heating rather than summer AC.

You can use RESFEN (available for free) or another software package of your choice. In most of the mid and northern U.S., the advantage goes to high solar gain at the expense of slightly higher U-values (Tables 4-6 at http://www.residentialenergylaboratory.com/window_codes.html), but you have not told us if you have a design laid out for good passive solar heating.

The technical specs are objective criteria; the selection of a particular brand is subjective. You can use freely available software to evaluate the objective criteria and determine actual energy usage and energy cost versus window performance specifications, and that would seem to me to be your first step.

Posted By Lee Dodge on 09 Apr 2013 06:55 PM

Posted By steve burke on 06 Apr 2013 09:08 PM
Hi Folks,
We are building an ICF house (think R22-25 walls, R49 attic) in Olympic Valley Ca (North Lake Tahoe) and we will appreciate your help as we are shopping for windows.

Our winter climate is very cold, and blustery. While our summers are warm we are more interested in winter performance. Our elevation is 6500'. Please let us know where we can find an objective review of the best performing windows (U < 0.2? for the entire window+frame). Also, if you have a favorite, please let me know what it is and why.
Thanks, Steve

Steve,

Why don't you do yourself a favor and determine what window specification would perform best in your area, rather than blindly asking "which window is best"? For example, there is a tradeoff between high solar gain windows that will allow more passive solar gain but at the expense of slightly higher U-values, and low solar gain windows that will restrict solar gain but allow slightly lower U-values. The advantage for the high solar gain windows would be more dramatic if your emphasis is on winter heating rather than summer AC.

You can use RESFEN (available for free) or another software package of your choice. In most of the mid and northern U.S., the advantage goes to high solar gain at the expense of slightly higher U-values (Tables 4-6 at http://www.residentialenergylaboratory.com/window_codes.html), but you have not told us if you have a design laid out for good passive solar heating.

The technical specs are objective criteria; the selection of a particular brand is subjective. You can use freely available software to evaluate the objective criteria and determine actual energy usage and energy cost versus window performance specifications, and that would seem to me to be your first step.

first off..well said eugene...

next, i am in the bay area shopping for "The Best" window for my situation as i described at the outset of this post.

Lee,
why don't you get a clue...asking for "the best" is an open ended, subjective question of course. That allows people to state their opinions based on their own perspective and experience which is what i find valuable. Our course "the Best" is subjective..i've done the thermo cals, it is not hard, and so has my energy guy. that said, the numbers simply do not tell the whole story.

In my opening post, the design, boundary conditions and use conditons are stated explicitly (though i did not state orientation of the house which is largely southerly). Of course high solar gain is important, duh.. i said WINTER PERFORMACE is to optimized...don't be pedantic, read what i wrote in the original post. i don't need the platitudes about "doing myself a favor." do yourself a favor: read, think, then type.

your second paragraph goes off a tangent about mid and northern US in a thinly veiled marketing push for your company. While your business may be there, this IS NOT where I stated the project is located, nor the conditions i face. Use googlemaps, don's use this for your own marketing purpose.

I used Kohltech window in my house. All casements. southfacing glass was energlas (doublepanehigh solar gain low E with argon fill) North, east and west windows are triple pane, double low E krypton filled windows, low solar gain
http://www.peterkohler.com/supreme_ratings

They don't have exactly the same options as they did when I built. Generaly they are good quality the latching mechanisms are very secure but sometimes stick a bit. They all have double gasket seals

When I was looking they were about 50% more than the least expensive casements., but 1/2 the cost of the most expensive windows I had quoted If I were doing it again, I would have used triple pane windows on the south side also.

Cheers,
Eric

I am also in middle of choosing some replacement windows for my home. Can you please tell how the U-value will affect the performance of windows? Whether the value shows the thermal performance of the structure? If we look about vinyl windows what will be the average U-value we should look on. I am living in Ottawa and I am planning to get the quotes from http://www.clerawindows.com/ . Share me your opinions and if there are any other reasonable shops, recommend me.