Good question, hopefully some good answers coming.. As im looking for the same thing.

John, have you started your ICF home yet? Im in the process of ICF in Maine as well.

Well,

I have bounced back and forth between double wall construction and ICF. I believe we are now leaning on TF Verticle ICF's. They poured the footers for my home today, and I need to make up my mind in the next couple of days.

I can order the TF's with 4.5" of foam on the exterior with 2.5 on the interior.

We are building a one story Ranch approx 2000sqft.

We are about to order the triple pane fiberglass windows from INLINE in canada.

Im still learning and researching how to best seal up the roof, installations of windows, and doors. Also researching the best solutions for radiant heat.

Also trying to figure out if I need HouseWrap under the HardiPlank siding we plan on using.

Back to doors. Generic American entry doors are a dead end, the aesthetics, seals and sills are inadequate for anyone looking for good performance, thermally or air tightness. We are continually caught between beautiful un-insulated wood slabs and marginally insulated fiberglass doors that aren't good looking.

I would suggest going custom. Take a look at this German door: http://passivhausfenster.at/products/house-doors

With the selection of weatherseals available from Conservation Technologies ( http://conservationtechnology.com/building_weatherseals.htmls ), any good woodworker should be able to make you a similar door that would align with your aesthetic and perform better than anything available on the market. I've always thought that a sauna door company could produce a better looking and insulated door than anything we can buy at a lumberyard.

Is anyone in Canada making any high efficiency doors like they are for windows?

John,

Knowing where you live, go look for some recently idled mid-coast boat builders. Their wood shaping skills are tremendous, complex curves are their bread and butter, and they're used to shaping foam. An insulated wood door should be child's play.

I imagine there are some wooden boat builder forums just like this one out there somewhere...

no such thing as an insulated wood door. Wood is not a good insulater.

How were you planning on attaching your walls to your footing?  Standard procedure for ICF walls is to install rebar dowels in the footing every 16" to 48" (depends on loads on walls) and aligned with the cavities in your forms.  These typically extend 16"- 24" up into the wall.  If you didn't do this and only installed anchor bolts for standard wall construction, you can come back and drill holes and epoxy grout rebar dowels at the necessary locations - just more work and more expense.  Ideally, you need to determine what kind of wall system you are using (including brand if using ICF due different spacing of ties) prior to installing the footing.  Also, are your footings large enough to support the additional weight of a concrete wall?

Here are some results for the Fibertech doors..

Screw Holding Capacity Test
Door Static Load Test
ASTM D1761
Minimum Load: 450lbs.
Distinction Door Load: 867lbs.
ASTM D1450 Sec 7.3
Minimum Load: 1000lbs.
Distinction Door Load: 2169lbs.
Machining Test ASTM D1666
The Distinction Door Mat Requirements for Boring
Sawing, Planing, Routing, Drilling & Chisel.
Air Infiltration ASTM E283
Test Pressure: 1.57psf (25mph)
Distinction Door Results: 0.10 scmf/ft
Water Resistance ASTM E331
Test Pressure: 2.68psf (25mph)
Distinction Door Results: Passed, No Leakage
Past Innermost
Uniform Structural Load ASTM E330
Test Pressure: 41.5psf (positive)
Distinction Door Results: Passed, No failure
NERC U Value = 0.15

From someone who has had nothing but problems with Fibertec, you will regret it. This company has the most unprofessional people from the President down to customer service. Their casement window crank mechanism to open and close the windows is not sturdy enough and Fibertec will not return my calls or email. If you are ever passing through VT, you are welcome to come and see what I am talking about. Every room in my house has a Fibertec window that isn't working properly and Fibertec will not even get back to me so I can purchase some of the parts. This is the most horrible company I have done business with EVER!! After doing some research on this company, it seems others are having the same problem I am with the windows and the staff.

I have a mahogany front door and wishing I would have gone with something more energy efficient. I didn't realize at the time I was building the little insulation value it has. I am planning for my future house to build and would like to get ideas... I was thinking about the Therma-Tru FiberClassic. If there are other doors that perform better, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jere

I used a Home Depot Feather River Door for my entry and a Jeld-Wen for by back door. The Feather River IMHO is far better quality then the Jeld-Wen. Feather River is wrap around FG pre-finished and Jeld-Wen has FG faces with exposed wood edges surrounding. The Jeld-Wen was also cheaper. Both were Energy Star rated. I guess you get what you pay for. Six years in the front door, no problems, looks like new. Three years on back door, looks new.

I believe that Lowe’s sells Therma-Tru which we looked at. Not bad, but were special order in the style we wanted and we needed a door quick. HD had Feather River in stock and in the style we wanted (also found one on sale for $200 off). Heard some bad things about Feather River, but have had no problems.

No real complaints about either, but Feather River appears to be better quality (also more $$). However, frames on both leave a lot to be desired. If you buy off the shelf, check frames and doors for damage. It seems that the box stored just don't care about how they handle things, as many doors at both stores had handling damage.

The advice of going custom is a good one until the german products are readily available in North America.  Hoffmeyer's Mill in Ontario have built many custom doors and have 100 yrs + experience between them.  They seem to do anything you want.  A quick google will pull them up and there are plenty of pictures.

As for wood doors not being insulated...well, many companies sandwich wood and foam.  I think most people who have researched insulated doors know this. 

Provia claims to make an R-15 Polyurethane door in their 'Legacy' line. The poly is sandwiched between steel that is finished to look like wood.

Posted By Jesse Thompson on 22 May 2009 08:57 AM
Back to doors. Generic American entry doors are a dead end, the aesthetics, seals and sills are inadequate for anyone looking for good performance, thermally or air tightness. We are continually caught between beautiful un-insulated wood slabs and marginally insulated fiberglass doors that aren't good looking.

Old thread but the above pretty much sums it up.

Stay away from Therma-Tru doors, I've heard nothing good about them.

GBA Article on Insulated Doors

Best option is to look to Europe or even Canada for an answer. Intus makes really well designed and affordable entry doors. Mult-locking mechanism and double/triple gaskets.

Posted By Lbear on 02 Apr 2013 03:25 AM



GBA Article on Insulated Doors

Best option is to look to Europe or even Canada for an answer. Intus makes really well designed and affordable entry doors. Mult-locking mechanism and double/triple gaskets.

Best option as defined how?  If you pay 2X, 3X, or more for a door, you will never recoup that cost in energy savings.  Martin at GBA says essentially the same thing when discussing the addition of a mud room.

Posted By arkie6 on 02 Apr 2013 05:45 AM

Best option as defined how?  If you pay 2X, 3X, or more for a door, you will never recoup that cost in energy savings.  Martin at GBA says essentially the same thing when discussing the addition of a mud room.

All depends what your goals are. It was discussed on GBA that deep energy retrofit's on average take over 100 years to see a ROI. Yet people still do them.

People spend on average $40k to remodel a kitchen. People spend $2k on a big screen TV. The list goes on and on...

A well built European entry door from Intus will cost you around $2k. A cheap HD door that will leak air and be a big energy hole in your thermal envelope will cost you $800.

If everything is viewed through the eye of ROI, in the end it makes no financial sense to build new, might as well buy something already built. Why buy the $40k car when you can get the $20k car and vehicles are depreciating assets anyways?

I am not saying that there is no place for reviewing the cost of something and the added benefit of said product. My point is that if you are looking to save $1k by getting a cheap door and have a 3x8 leaky hole in your wall, it really doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things. We waste A LOT of money on totally stupid stuff all the time in our daily lives. When it comes to building green and sustainability for future generations, spending a little more on a quality door is money well spent.

Why must everything be one extreme or the other? Is there no middle ground?

Does Intus even make an insulated fiberglass entry door? I looked at their website and did not see anything like that offered. They offer wood entry doors, but as has been discussed extensively here GBT, a few inches of solid wood is a pretty poor insulator. A hardwood that is typically used for doors will generally have less than R1 per inch. For a typical door thickness, you are looking at less than R3.  For a polyurethane foam insulated fiberglass door such ThermaTru, the published R value for the door panel is over R7.

Posted By arkie6 on 02 Apr 2013 05:18 PM
Why must everything be one extreme or the other? Is there no middle ground?

Does Intus even make an insulated fiberglass entry door? I looked at their website and did not see anything like that offered. They offer wood entry doors, but as has been discussed extensively here GBT, a few inches of solid wood is a pretty poor insulator. A hardwood that is typically used for doors will generally have less than R1 per inch. For a typical door thickness, you are looking at less than R3.  For a polyurethane foam insulated fiberglass door such ThermaTru, the published R value for the door panel is over R7.

Intus does not make fiberglass but it does make door designs that get R5-R7. I was merely offering them as a low cost option. They achieve Passive House sealing standards.

The ThermaTrue door hardware and sealing design are not up to par for good air sealing. I read where some people tried to modify the door by installing multiple locking mechanisms with an attempt to pull the door tighter. Most people are not up to re-engineering doors.

I would be curious to see some studies on ThermaTru doors and their sealing capabilities. 

Therma True will sell you a door with multi point locks installed -it adds a few hundred dollars and they are quite a bit tighter than the standard TT door. Doesn't solve all the issues but it is a step up.

Posted By Bob I on 03 Apr 2013 08:25 AM
Therma True will sell you a door with multi point locks installed -it adds a few hundred dollars and they are quite a bit tighter than the standard TT door. Doesn't solve all the issues but it is a step up.

With the multi-lock, what is the price range of that thing? $1,500+ ?

Even with the multi-lock, I would seriously doubt that TT is considered an air tight door.

It all comes down to style. 95% of people don't care or even know to care what R-Value a door is and how well it seals. It's all about looks & price, and TT caters to that crowd. So what if your door is R1 and leaks enough air that it does 5 air changes per hour? As long as it looks good and is priced cheap.

A German made door is a totally different class of door. When you pay 30 cents per kWh you begin to pay attention to what R-Value your door is and how well it keeps the air out.

Hopefully TT steps up to the plate and engineers a door that is worthy of Passive House standards but I won't be holding my breath.

People living in scorpion country do appreciate an air tight door. Nothing like walking around and getting stung by a scorpion will make you wish you had better sealing doors.

costs seem to be $600 & up. I think the lock system adds about $250. No, its not an airtight door but it's much better than the standard. I'm sure it's not as good as the German doors; what do they run?

Posted By Bob I on 04 Apr 2013 08:37 AM
costs seem to be $600 & up. I think the lock system adds about $250. No, its not an airtight door but it's much better than the standard. I'm sure it's not as good as the German doors; what do they run?

The lowest priced I found is an Intus entry door, which will run you around $1,800 for a 42"x 90" door. This is with triple pane glass, all three panes tempered, 3-point locking system with latches, double gasket seals. The door frame gets a U-Value of 0.14 and the glazing is a U-Value of 0.10, so you are looking at around a R-8/R-9 total.

The prices go up from there. Typically around $2k-3k depending on who you go with, prices can really jump to $4k-$5k if you go custom made and high end German or Polish made (but German design based) doors.

It's not cheap but as mentioned if consumers don't demand better made doors (and windows), then the US market will continue to make what it makes. I would rather get a high quality entry door and spend the $2k and cut back on the overpriced kitchen granite counter tops. I can find granite tops pretty inexpensive if you shop around the granite warehouses. They are usually 1/3 of the cost of HD Lowe's or some kitchen/bathroom counter store.

Buy a flush steel insulated door with multi-point hardware. Add 3/4" wood to exterior recessed on two sides and top.
Add second door stop and weatherstriping that wood closes against.
Add 3/4" wood to interior that is larger than flush steel slab on one side, top and bottom (not hinge side).
You now have an affordable, insulated, custom, triple weather striped, multi-point locking door.
Now your biggest problem is finding door hardware.