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The following windows bids and data were received from the factory reps for each listed window manufacturer. Each manufacturer was given the same instructions and window list. The south elevation windows required a high SHGC for passive solar.

The goal was to get high quality windows that provide the best energy efficiency. The windows in the home (21 total) of which some are quite large (5x7, 6x4, etc) and are mostly fixed with only 5 of the 21 windows being operable. Depending on the manufacturer either casement, awning or tilt & turn were requested. No sliders, single or double hung windows were chosen due to the fact that those windows do not perform as well due to air infiltration.

No special framing or options were chosen, just the basic window that has the best energy efficiency the manufacturer provides. The bids include shipping and delivery.

I will update this list as I am waiting on a few more manufacturers to provide their bid.

 

SERIOUS WINDOWS: $22,070  (Dual Pane Window with Heat Mirror Glazing)

·       (Fiberglass Frames)

      SHGC = 0.45   U-Value = 0.22 (south elevation)

·       SHGC = 0.27   U-Value = 0.17

       VT = 0.36 - 0.55

 

MARVIN WINDOWS: $25,311  (Triple Pane Window) (Bare Pine Interior - Clad Exterior Frames)

·       SHGC = 0.48  U-Value = 0.24  (south elevation)

·       SHGC = 0.28  U-Value = 0.23

MARVIN WINDOWS: $19,500  (Dual Pane Window) (Bare Pine Interior - Clad Exterior Frames)

·       SHGC = 0.48  U-Value = 0.29 (south elevation)

·       SHGC = 0.27  U-Value = 0.28

      VT - 0.35 - 0.65

 

INTUS WINDOWS: $13,000   (Triple Pane Window) (u-PVC Frames)

·       SHGC = 0.49 or 0.62   U-Value = 0.13 (south elevation)

·       SHGC = 0.26   U-Value = 0.12

      VT = 0.43 - 0.77

MILGARD WINDOWS $19,470  (Dual Pane and Triple Pane Windows) (Wood Windows)
                                                      * They are not able to engineer a large triple pane window so larger windows utilized a dual pane design *

                                                      SHGC = 0.56  U-Value = 0.42  (south elevation)

                                                      SHGC = 0.18  U-Value = 0.22

                                                      VT = 0.35 - 0.56

** A VT rating of LESS THAN 0.40 is not considered "clear glass". Any rating in the mid - low 0.30 range is definitely tinted glass.**

The highest DP Rating of any of the windows was Intus, with a DP60 – DP80 rating. Marvin & Milgard had a hard time with the glass size and stated they might not be able to make a 5x7 window in triple pane due to the glass height as it would require extensive engineering on their part. The other issue with Marvin, Milgard and Serious Windows was that the glass would require a mullion in the center of the larger glass for strength. This is most likely due to the glass thickness being too thin and the frame not being sturdy enough. Intus was the only window manufacturer that stated the larger glass would not require a mullion, although it would be optional.

 More bids to come but initial pricing from Pella (triple pane) was around $25K. Still waiting on Anderson.

Window prices are greatly influenced by the frame material, with wood generally being the most expensive. What was the frame material of the above windows for comparison sake?

I thought Marvin windows are wood frame (Marvin has a fiberglass frame window, but that line is called Integrity), while Serious is either fiberglass or vinyl, and Intus is vinyl. That might help explain the cost differences. Please clarify.

Lbear,

Thank you for posting the window quotes.  Very informative.  Please post any additional quotes you get and be sure to mention the type of material in each quote such as wood, vinyl or fiberglass.

Lbear,
Have you tried weather shield? They make a fiberglass window called enduraclad. I think it can get a U value in the area of .18 with a triple pane glass. I am in the process of pricing these.

I too have priced Pella, Marvin, Eagle, and intus. The problem is they are not all equal. Intus seems like the best value and best u value. However, I have never see one in person and I am not crazy about the tilt and turn design. It is going to create issues with my house design as the windows open in. Also, I did not like the way the screens are designed. Intus is in the process of pricing their aluminum / wood window for me. It will be interesting to see what they come in at. Another thing with the Intus is the way they are mounted. They install like replacement windows. You will need recess them a bit into the window opening and make a sill. My window prices seem to be in line with yours with the exception of Marvin ultimate. I think the sales person priced them with SDL grills.

I am also waiting on a price on the Marvin integrity fiberglass window.

I wonder how much of a real difference lets say the Pella with a U of .25 and a window with a .18 would make on performance. It would be great to put a price vs performance on a chart to see what the pay back would be given the .18 cost more.

Posted By peteinny on 26 Mar 2012 07:46 PM
Lbear,
Have you tried weather shield? They make a fiberglass window called enduraclad. I think it can get a U value in the area of .18 with a triple pane glass. I am in the process of pricing these.

I too have priced Pella, Marvin, Eagle, and intus. The problem is they are not all equal. Intus seems like the best value and best u value. However, I have never see one in person and I am not crazy about the tilt and turn design. It is going to create issues with my house design as the windows open in. Also, I did not like the way the screens are designed. Intus is in the process of pricing their aluminum / wood window for me. It will be interesting to see what they come in at. Another thing with the Intus is the way they are mounted. They install like replacement windows. You will need recess them a bit into the window opening and make a sill. My window prices seem to be in line with yours with the exception of Marvin ultimate. I think the sales person priced them with SDL grills.

I am also waiting on a price on the Marvin integrity fiberglass window.

I wonder how much of a real difference lets say the Pella with a U of .25 and a window with a .18 would make on performance. It would be great to put a price vs performance on a chart to see what the pay back would be given the .18 cost more.

Send me a PM on the sales reps for Weather Shield, I would like to see a bid from them also.

The tilt & turn are not for everyone. For me, I actually like them and 90% of the time the operable windows will remain closed anyway. The way my home is designed the windows would not get in the way. The screens are not as bad as one might think. While screens are not "standard" in Europe, the screens they offer are functional and do what they are made for, keeping out the insects. As far as the mounting, I think it will be OK with my design as they should work easily with the V-Buck design. I don't mind the sills.

What I am noticing is that manufacturers like Marvin and Milgard are having a hard time making a 5x7 window without incorporating mullions and special engineering. This is due to the thinner glass and weaker frames that are used by them. Intus had no problems whatsoever in making a 5x7 window without mullions. This is due in part to the thicker glass they use along with the heavy duty frames. Intus can make a window as large as 10x8 before it needs to incorporate special engineering. Milgard and Marvin were also struggling with the DP ratings in those sizes. As low as DP30 (110MPH) ratings was where those windows were coming in at. While Intus had a DP60 rating, which is "hurricane rated". Remember, these are just their standard windows/glass that have a DP60 rating. That just goes to show you what you are getting with an Intus window design.

The best thing to do is to shop around and get as many bids as possible. In the end you will make an educated decision being that you have all the options in front of you. Many people just pick Pella or Marvin, get 2 bids and then buy the window. Instead of doing better research and exploring more window companies they just go with what is advertised at Lowes or Home Depot. As far as cost & energy design, right now for me, Intus leads the pack. I could not justify paying double for a window design like Marvin that loses 50% more energy through its windows.

Posted By Alton on 26 Mar 2012 10:14 AM
Lbear,

Thank you for posting the window quotes.  Very informative.  Please post any additional quotes you get and be sure to mention the type of material in each quote such as wood, vinyl or fiberglass.

You're welcome.

I went back and updated the original post to reflect the frame material.

Honestly i would try and stay away from WeatherShield. As a former Distributor of WeatherShield we had nothing but problems with their windows when we used them and still do when trying to get warranty issues taken care of. We switched to Windsor Windows (www.windsorwindows.com and have had nothing but success with them and recently also added Ply Gem (www.plygemwindows.com) as well.

Posted By peteinny on 26 Mar 2012 07:46 PM
...
I wonder how much of a real difference lets say the Pella with a U of .25 and a window with a .18 would make on performance. It would be great to put a price vs performance on a chart to see what the pay back would be given the .18 cost more.

The price versus performance depends on outdoor temperatures, solar insolation, window placement in your house, and shading.  Various software tools are available for free to determine the price versus performance customized for your window configuration and climate, or for a city near you with a similar climate.  You can even put different windows on different sides of the house.  One piece of software that I use for looking at window effects is RESFEN (http://windows.lbl.gov/software/resfen/resfen.html).  The computed energy requirements for the whole house are not as accurate as for other software, but the difference between different windows is easy to compute.  It does require that you add the windows of interest to the Windows library, accessible by clicking on Libraries, Windows, and then go to Detailed View and edit an existing window in the database to your window specs and size, or use the Copy command to copy a window and add that to the database and edit it as you like. 

If you want better energy use numbers for the whole house, use BEopt, but better accuracy requires more inputs.  Again you need to add the windows of interest to the database.  HEED is another software program available for free that I have used, but I forget the window options available as I have not used it to evaluate windows. 

You can imagine that the "best" window in Houston is not the same as the "best" window for the coast of Maine, which is not the same as the "best" window for St. Louis, and the performance versus price varies dramatically between these cities.  The best window for the south side of your house is not necessarily the best window for the north side, but it is nice to have them match even if they have different coatings for the glass.  Best windows for the south side can be different depending on whether or not you have overhangs.  There is no simple answer to "window price versus performance," but it is fairly simple to compute the answer customized to your own situation.  Why not make the effort?

Updated with the Milgard bid...

Evan, after seeing how you handle people who don't agree with your Idea of what is what, I would suggest that your company may produce a fine product but I for one would never recommend you! Further now that you have realized that many people read these forums I would suggest that you appologize, to those whose oppions you tried to shut down before deleating those post. We all can work here together but I for one found you a little overbearing in your approach.

I

The numbers speak for themselves. When a manufacturer like Intus makes the best energy rated windows for $7,000 - $12,000 LESS than other manufacturers, it doesn't require RESFEN to tell you which window to pick.

It's not that complicated. Intus windows are the best value and the best energy rated windows that I could find.

In addition, Intus windows are rated at DP60-DP80, which far outperforms any other window in the list.

If another window manufacturer can match the ratings and cost of Intus, I will reconsider. Until then, if then ever happens, Intus windows are my choice for now.

Where did you get the performance numbers? NFRC shows that Intus best fixed window is a .15U also their tilt turn best is .17 U.

Posted By windowrookie on 03 Apr 2012 10:45 PM
Where did you get the performance numbers? NFRC shows that Intus best fixed window is a .15U also their tilt turn best is .17 U.

Got them from Intus. If they are wrong, I will update the post. Do you know what model they were?

Lbear

I never said that they are wrong, just not posted on NFRC.

Fixed-4 sided. http://search.nfrc.org/search/cpd/cpd_search_detail.aspx?cpdnum=IWW-M-1

Tilt turn. http://search.nfrc.org/search/cpd/cpd_search_detail.aspx?cpdnum=IWW-M-2

Posted By Lbear on 26 Mar 2012 01:20 AM
...
INTUS WINDOWS: $13,000   (Triple Pane Window) (u-PVC Frames)

·       SHGC = 0.49 or 0.62   U-Value = 0.13 (south elevation)

·       SHGC = 0.26   U-Value = 0.11

      VT = 0.43 - 0.77

...

From the NFRC website, the highest SHGC, triple-pane, fixed window made by Intus that I can find is:

U=0.20, SHGC=0.44, VT=0.57 for the
IWW-M-1-00002-00002, 4mm ExtraClear/ARG/4mm ExtraClear/ARG/4mm ClimaGuard Premium 
(This is a fairly low SHGC for a "high SHGC" window, so maybe these should be considered intermediate solar gain windows.)

From the NFRC website, the lowest U-value, triple-pane, fixed window made by Intus that I can find is:

U=0.15, SHGC=0.19, VT=0.34 for the
IWW-M-1-00008-00001, 6mm SunGuard SuperNeutral 51/ARG/4mm ExtraClear/ARG/Laminate (4mm Premium/1.52mm Interlayer/4mm ExtraClear)

Lbear said: "A VT rating of LESS THAN 0.40 is not considered "clear glass". Any rating in the mid - low 0.30 range is definitely tinted glass," so this last window should not be considered clear glass but rather tinted glass by your definition. 

The numbers that you quoted must be center-of-glass values, which are usually quoted by European manufacturers, although Intus should know better.  I expect this same confusion of center-of-glass values versus whole-window performance values is behind some of the other comparisons that you have presented.   

Lee Well, after all, their slogan is "probably the most energy efficient windows and doors". I got a quote from them for the hell of it. They cost roughly 2k more then the double pane Pella Impervia (6k total window package), and slightly less then triple pane Inline. May have to run the numbers in RESfen and see where they fall.

Izerac

I would be interested to see where their numbers lie, keep us posted....

Lbear,
Did you ever get any bids from inline?

Posted By peteinny on 11 Apr 2012 07:33 PM
Lbear,
Did you ever get any bids from inline?

Not yet. Can you PM me the contact info for an Inline rep?