Any 2015 Energy Star Most Efficent fiberglass windows?
Last Post 09 Apr 2015 10:13 AM by Bob I. 8 Replies.
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RinkevichJMUser is Offline
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22 Feb 2015 04:51 PM
I see plenty of PVCu windows, and one thermoplastic limited to Texas. I don't want PVC because our ohade temp high often go above 45C and PVC deteriorates at 60C and there isn't any way to protect it from being in the sun and reaching close to that. And the current windows are horizontal sliders and I don't want windows that are out of frame due to potentional hazards (no casements or T&Ts) After running Cardinal's energy cost simulator (set to Barstow,CA) I think I need a triple with low SHGC of as close to .10 as I can get with the lowest u factor. The NFRC data shows a Fiberframe e240/180/i89 at u=.21 and SHGC of .14 and u=.21 krypton filled, the Cardinal program estimates the e340 package at SHGC=.12 and u=.2 argon fill with class 3 frame. Does anyone produce an energy star most efficient 2015 fiberglass frame for horiz sliders?
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22 Feb 2015 10:25 PM
Posted By RinkevichJM on 22 Feb 2015 04:51 PM
I see plenty of PVCu windows, and one thermoplastic limited to Texas. I don't want PVC because our ohade temp high often go above 45C and PVC deteriorates at 60C and there isn't any way to protect it from being in the sun and reaching close to that. And the current windows are horizontal sliders and I don't want windows that are out of frame due to potentional hazards (no casements or T&Ts) After running Cardinal's energy cost simulator (set to Barstow,CA) I think I need a triple with low SHGC of as close to .10 as I can get with the lowest u factor. The NFRC data shows a Fiberframe e240/180/i89 at u=.21 and SHGC of .14 and u=.21 krypton filled, the Cardinal program estimates the e340 package at SHGC=.12 and u=.2 argon fill with class 3 frame. Does anyone produce an energy star most efficient 2015 fiberglass frame for horiz sliders?

I don't know where you got your info but a lot of it is completely wrong.

First thing first. Rigid PVC as used in window frames is not raw PVC. It contains heat stabilizers and good window frames use UNPLASTICIZED PVC or otherwise known as uPVC.

So a window frame made of uPVC does NOT melt at 60C/ 140F. Around 120C/250F it will begin to soften and around 180C/350F it will melt. If you see 200F + then you have bigger problems to worry about that melting PVC. At that point that means there is a fire nearby.

Sliders are the worst style of window you can get for air sealing and operation. By its design it cannot be sealed properly. Casements and tilt & turn windows seal the best out of any operable design. You will not find a passive house design that uses sliders.

Good quality PVC Casements/T&T's will NOT distort since windows like Intus uPVC use steel reinforced frames. A quality uPVC window like Intus can be installed in desert climates without any problems.






RinkevichJMUser is Offline
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23 Feb 2015 12:54 AM
LBear
I have seen what the weight of a child can do to regular door hinges and have no doubt that could do to those on a tilt and turn or casement. Also I notice no one ever mentions what happens mechanically inside a crank long term: they don't close fully and then they leak worse than any slider. The passive house test is slightly rigged: why don't they test with positive inside pressure which is the more normal case. IDECs (actually all ECs) create quite a bit of internal pressure because they have open the attic up ducts. Because the temperatures outside in summer are higher then inside high IR rejection is really important.
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23 Feb 2015 03:08 AM
Posted By RinkevichJM on 23 Feb 2015 12:54 AM
LBear
I have seen what the weight of a child can do to regular door hinges and have no doubt that could do to those on a tilt and turn or casement. Also I notice no one ever mentions what happens mechanically inside a crank long term: they don't close fully and then they leak worse than any slider. The passive house test is slightly rigged: why don't they test with positive inside pressure which is the more normal case. IDECs (actually all ECs) create quite a bit of internal pressure because they have open the attic up ducts. Because the temperatures outside in summer are higher then inside high IR rejection is really important.

A heavy duty T&T window like Intus will not have the hinges damaged from regular or even rough use since the hinges are screwed and reinforced into thick gauge tubed steel. There are no crank assemblies in T&T windows. Casement, yes.

T&T and casement windows PULL the window tight when they are closed. Sliders and single/double hung windows can't do that. The track the slider rides on is open to the outside 24/7. If you took an air gun and blew onto the track the air would leak outside. Better yet, a simple smoke pencil test will show that all sliders leak air around the track area and where the two window portions meet.

I didn't understand what you meant by, "the weight of child"? Are you referring to a child swinging/hanging from a window?

There is no "rigging" in the PH testing since the blower door test is standard protocol by DOE, ORNL, etc, and is the recognized standard of testing by building scientists. How would one even use a smoke pencil on a positive pressure test as it would require going outside the home and the outside winds would skew the leak detection?








RinkevichJMUser is Offline
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27 Feb 2015 10:57 AM
1. The test is rigged because buildings generally have positive pressure inside not negative like the test.
2. The deformation temperature of any type of PVC is from 56c to 80c (132F-180F) according to PVC.org even building codes don't allow it to be used for hot water(CPVC is a different product).
3. Intus SHGC to VT is so low I might as well be puting a piece of cardboard outside the window. Really Cardinal 340/180/89 is twice that at similar SHGC.
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27 Feb 2015 01:07 PM
Posted By RinkevichJM on 27 Feb 2015 10:57 AM
1. The test is rigged because buildings generally have positive pressure inside not negative like the test.
2. The deformation temperature of any type of PVC is from 56c to 80c (132F-180F) according to PVC.org even building codes don't allow it to be used for hot water(CPVC is a different product).
3. Intus SHGC to VT is so low I might as well be puting a piece of cardboard outside the window. Really Cardinal 340/180/89 is twice that at similar SHGC.

1 - If you believe the test is "rigged" then you are stating that hundreds of scientists don't know what they are talking about and they are all wrong.

2 - Once again, this is a red herring you are using. Raw PVC is not what is used in high-end window frames. uPVC is used with special additives to make it stronger and more resilient to heat and UV light. I know of ZERO window manufacturers that use raw PVC as their window frame.

3 - You are purposely slandering the facts because Intus' SHGC to VLT is really good. For example in the triple pane lineup with a center of glass U-Value of 0.08:
  • SHGC 0.494 = VLT of 0.71 
  • SHGC 0.692 = VLT of 0.73
  • SHGC 0.369 = VLT of 0.62

It is apparent that you are purposely slandering Intus and your intentions are not pure here on this forum. You only posted 3 posts on this forum and all three of them were basically complete lies and falsehoods. None of your statements were true. I'm sorry but it is apparent that you are only here to cause problems.


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31 Mar 2015 05:38 PM
RinkevichJM

Wrong, NAFS testing has both positive and negative pressure...

Casements are superior to T/T. T/T are much more expensive, more temper mental and open to the inside.

LBear

Can you provide proof or evidence that UPVC softens at 120C, I have yet to see that.
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09 Apr 2015 09:57 AM
I have uPVC windows in my europian apartment for decades. Nothing could be better. Extremely high heat and noise insulation, very hard construction and reliable mechanizm. Being in USA I am always very much astonished by the american style sliding one-glass windows in residential houses. They are simply outdated and awful in 21 century. Thanks to this forum I found at last the producer of real windows for my american project.
Bob IUser is Offline
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09 Apr 2015 10:13 AM
"the producer of real windows for my american project...." which are...?
thanks for the review of upvc, too.
Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
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