There is a slim possibility that I might be able to get .5 to 1 inch foam board added to the exterior of the house as a bridging break, before the siding is installed. I have several questions. First, what order should the materials go on after the OSB sheathing? House wrap, then foam then vinyl siding? Second, how should the foam board be attached? Nailed to the OSB? Nailed through the OSB into the 2X6s? Do I need any kind of spacer between the vinyl siding and the foam? Does the foam need to be covered or protected other than by the vinyl siding?

The Modular windows will already be installed and the Modular house wrapped, prior to the foam installation. Without resetting the windows, is there some way to compensate for the one inch foam board on the modular?

Posted By Rosalinda on 28 Apr 2010 10:55 PM

The Modular windows will already be installed and the Modular house wrapped, prior to the foam installation. Without resetting the windows, is there some way to compensate for the one inch foam board on the modular?

There are ways , but no good ways,  re-set the windows

Thanks Chris, I thought that would be the case.

-Rosalinda

I wouldn't say there are no good ways, just no inexpensive ways. Likely your windows have a projection of 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" from the face of the exterior sheathings which means 1" foam board will still be back from the face of the window frame which means you could build a fiber cement or wood or order a wide vinyl profile casing to trim out the window. Because this material is generally available in 3/4" thickness you will only be out 1/2 - 1/4" from the window frame. The depth of the casing detail will be proud of the window frame and create a pleasing reveal. Casing a window looks better than the cheap method of leaving window frames factory anyways.

Posted By greentree on 29 Apr 2010 09:23 PM
I wouldn't say there are no good ways, just no inexpensive ways. Likely your windows have a projection of 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" from the face of the exterior sheathings which means 1" foam board will still be back from the face of the window frame which means you could build a fiber cement or wood or order a wide vinyl profile casing to trim out the window. Because this material is generally available in 3/4" thickness you will only be out 1/2 - 1/4" from the window frame. The depth of the casing detail will be proud of the window frame and create a pleasing reveal. Casing a window looks better than the cheap method of leaving window frames factory anyways.

and it will also leak and rot out everything below it, it is a jamb extention that is not practical to make water tight, instead of "Mickey Mousing" the job, take the windows out and install correctly

I did not say it was not possible to do it, its just not practical to do it without the high probability of leakage

Thanks Greentree and Chris. I guess once I have the modular I will have a better idea of what the windows look like and how they fit on the house. It does not look as if my current contractor has the ability to tackle this, so I will have to find someone with the experience to do this job. I am not sure I want/can do it myself.

-Rosalinda

Chris,
I have no idea what are you talking about.

Its no different than if the foam was not there, in fact its the same; trim and cladding is just out further. Its asthetics.

The windows are already sealed in and the wrb is on. That is the drainage plane. Cladding sheds bulk water and the casing detail with a built in j still sets behind the face of the frame at the rear plane to give you depth for a sealant bead if you desire on the sides, though it would be redundant. If you were worried about too much water coming out of the weeps and finding its way between the foam and drainage plane behind the lower cladding at the bottom you could cap it with coil stock, that would depend on weep locations but again is unecessary. The bottom piece of casing unless it is vinyl siding which I hope you know is completely not waterproof is basically decorative, as the weeps would dump water onto the cladding beneath the bottom piece of proud casing. I shouldn't have to type this out to a builder.

You guys have weird luan windows down there in Florida or what? Or is it a stucco thing? We dont do stucco here so maybe that's what your spouting off about.

Posted By greentree on 29 Apr 2010 10:55 PM
Chris,
I have no idea what are you talking about.

I agree that you don't know .............. its not just the foam, Rosalinda is placing OSB and foam beyond the windows, you no longer have a plane (please lookup definition) once you recess the windows.

You are giving bad advice, when the simple solution is to remove the windows and install properly,    beleive it or not us goobers down south build with the same windows and siding that you do up north. while reccessing in masonry is acceptable because the block is impervious to water, it is not acceptable in frame.

One problem with resetting the windows on a modular is that the interior is finished, most of the time with drywall returns. (IE: the drywall turns into the window opening and serves as the jamb.) If this is the case, resetting the windows will require extensive drywall rework around each window. If you are using vinyl siding, my suggestion would be to order oversized (1-1.25"vs the typical 5/8") vinyl J channel. This trim can be installed and sealed directly around the windows, in the same manner as it would be without the foam board. Now you have enough room to install the 1/2" foam board and siding into the J channel. This should provide a relatively seamless transisiton between windows and siding, and without damaging the weather seal around the windows.

Ok chris, now berate Wes because his suggestion is a repeat of what I suggested.

I have some nice oak lumber logs drying for cutting next year. Once I get some of that nice oak lumber, maybe I can get the siding/insulation done by resetting the windows and redo the window returns with the oak, improving both the window return and the bridging situations.

I appreciate ALL your suggestions and advice.

-Rosalinda

Posted By greentree on 30 Apr 2010 08:27 AM
Ok chris, now berate Wes because his suggestion is a repeat of what I suggested.

I don't think all the components were considered in his analysis , 1" foam + 1/2" OSB + 5/8" siding = 2-1/8", if the option is avialable to remove windows and replace over the OSB/foam then that is the best solution.

Agreed. My understanding was 1/2 osb, wrb, window in, foam, 5/8 siding. Horse is beaten and dead.

I just put 66 tubes of caulk into the inside ground floor walls. I also contracted with a home energy evaluator who will assist me with contacts and information during the build, to increase my energy efficiency, and will test and evaluate the house once it is done. He will also file the paperwork to get the house energy star rated in the hope of being eligible for some of the Fed and State incentives for rated houses. I am looking forward to seeing if the house performs to expected standards, and where and how I can improve it.

We are still waiting on the modular delivery date. There is a problem with the ceiling that needs to be resolved before we accept the house. Hope we hear soon on how they are going to resolve this issue. There is always a monkey wrench in the works, can't expect things to go too smoothly!

-Rosalinda

What kind of caulk did you use? Just curious.

I used 30 tubes of Tremco Dymonic (which I picked up at my local dollar store - a real steal) in the west wall continuing to the north wall until I ran out (prevailing wind is from the west north west - I also used this on all the exterior OSB seams) and then used DAP Alex Plus interior exterior for the rest. There were also a few places I could not get with the caulk gun, so I used expanding foam in those places. My big indulgence was buying a Ryobi 18Volt caulk gun - and I don't think I could have done this job without it.

Once the modular is on I plan on putting a high quality silicone caulk around interior of the sill plates, and probably going around and touching up all the caulk in the walls that might open up once all the weight is on the walls.

Any suggestions for what silicone caulk I should use?

-Rosalinda

Nice work on the Tremco, I use alot of Dymonic FC. I was hoping you weren't going to say painters caulk. It was probably at the dollar store because it was expired though.

About the silicone, I do alot of remodeling and I pull off ALOT of debonded silicone out of gaps, cracks and compressed behind windows; sealant that for a short while was bonded and performing but lost its adhesion after some movement or never bonded in the first place. There is a type of professional silicone that is supposed to perform well, but have never used it, I believe it is referred to as a neutral cure but may be wrong. I would continue to use a Tremco Dymonic or OSI Quad Pro Series for around your sill plate. There are probably some specific sealants by manufacture for your application, I try to limit what I use so I dont have to stock too many different types in my trailer so check the website if you feel the need. But, good sealants cost good money so be prepared to pay otherwise I wouldn't waste your time, 1 10 oz tube of Tremco costs me $4.8. What will happen is your blower door test will show it nice and tight because it is, but after some cycles of movement all those joints will open up again.

What alot of people don't understand is that to work properly a caulk joint needs to be designed. Most often the factory specs the joint design for it to perform to its capabilities. Most people will just apply, wipe with their finger and cover it up. The joint will likely fail, negating all the effort and benefit of the caulk in the first place. Tremco calls for a minimum of 1/4" for each of the 2 bonded surfaces. There are specific rules about when to use backer rod, ect.

Here is the sheet for Tremco, notice it has +/- 25% movement capability. Dymonic FC has +/- 35%, OSI Quad Pro has 25%.
http://www.tremcosealants.com/fileshare/pds/Dymonic%20DS%20English.pdf

Here is DAP's Alex Plus, which only has 12.5% movement capability, not very good and 12.5% is only if the joint is designed properly.
http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00010019.pdf

I need advice -
One problem solved, another created....

The modular builder put a 1.22/12 ceiling in the house instead of the 5/12 ordered. The company that sold me the home is going to fix this by sistering in a 2 X 10 along the rafter chord of the truss, adding what will be exposed collar ties, cutting the now superfluous chords of the truss, insulating the 2 X10 rafter space, and sheetrocking the ceiling. This will be for the 26 foot open section of the house. the remaining 20 foot (bedroom, bathroom, library) will remain as is from the factory, 1.22/12 ceiling, baffles, R38 blown in cellulose. This change in the front 26 foot of the ceiling was designed by an architect and meets NYS code.

The house has a continuous ridge vent. The ceiling peak height will now be approx 12ft from the top of the floor to the peak and 10.5 ft to the exposed collar ties. This is all fine with me.

My problem or maybe it is an opportunity, is how to insulate this roof/ceiling to get as close to R50 as I can without breaking the bank, or causing moisture problems, a sick house, a problem with the ventilation/moisture on the back 20 foot of the house. With only 9.5 inches to work with, using baffles and HD fiberglass batts we can only get to R30. Can I add 4 inches of closed cell foam board to the bottom of the rafter to give me something approaching R50 and then cover that with sheetrock? Is the much more expensive alternative of using 7 inches of closed cell spray foam the better way to go? Wont this interfere with the ventilation on the back half of the house, or can the continuous ridge vent be covered with PVC tubing so it continues to function as a vent for the back of the house whilst not interfering with the spray foam on the front half?

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

-Rosalinda

After lots of advice in the foam insulation thread, I am going to bite the bullet and go for spray foam insulation. It will be expensive, between 4 and 5 grand, rough figures from preliminary quotes, but it should give me very close to R50 and eliminate air filtration in the open section of the house roof/ceiling. I am going to translate this extra insulation into passing on a high efficiency boiler, and going with a high efficiency hot water heater to power my radiant in the floor. This should save me a grand, so I will look on that as a rebate.

The modular will be here on Thursday and will be craned on Wed 2 June, 3 weeks behind original plan. Fortunately I do not have any kind of deadline and just need to be in the house before winter. The only thing pressuring me now is that my Mom is ill and I need to get to NYC as soon as I possibly can to help care for her. My sibs have it under control for now.

Once the Modular is on, we can complete the ground floor, and that will be a relief. Onward and upward....

-Rosalinda

If anyone is interested, here is a photo album of some of the house construction. I add images daily. You do not need to be a Facebook user to view these.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=171985&id=665372917&l=35a6857cce

Tomorrow I do a final caulk touch up, though so far none of the caulk has moved as I thought it might now that the modular is on top of the ground floor. The wiring for the ground floor was completed today, so tomorrow I finish spray foaming those bits that need it, and then install the fiberglass batts. I told my contractor I want to do it myself, since I know I will use all best practices and take my time to get it right.

The American Homes crew (AH sold me the house) is ripping out the ceiling and insulation in the front 26 feet of the house from the large center window to the east end (the 17 window side is the south side), and then will reconfigure the rafters to correct the ceiling error made by the modular builder, ManorWood. They are also supposed to blow the cellulose they are taking out of the ceiling from the front 26 feet into the ceiling of the back 20 feet, so that should be well over R50 when they are done. I am hoping to get a couple of contractors down to give me firm quotes on sprayfoam on Mon or Tues. AH will also have to replace the kitchen window, as ManorWood installed the wrong one, and one of the sets of mulled windows on the ground floor, as ManorWood shipped the wrong ones. The windows in the modular and in the south elevation of the ground floor are by MI, and the rest are American Craftsman for Home Depot (was Silverline). So far I it seems the American Craftsman ones are the better made, though time will tell. These are all mid to low end windows, but all double pane, argon gas, low e etc.

To be continued.....