Not worth it. I have just completed building an ICF foundation. Be warned -- 1) forms for foundation wall alone, ie NOT including the cost of the concrete and not including the cost of the footing, costs as much as a standard poured footing and foundation wall. 2) Extra costs: special and very expensive below grade waterproofing, special and very expensive above grade water and uv protection, extensive, expensive, and time consuming "strapping" to hold the forms together in addition to the expensive rent for the bracing/scaffolding. 3) difficulty adequately consolidating the pour, leaving voids in the concrete resulting in multiple issues including structural defects, waterproofing problems, infestation problems, etc. 4) inevitable displacement of blocks during pour, resulting in open spaces between blocks, ie, extensive small spaces between blocks essentially eliminating any R-value from using ICF, and the top of the foundation being not necessarily level throughout, adding costs to get a level place to build on. 5) this is NOT a DYI. I did it DYI, and the time consumed in using ICF has put me months behind schedule. The costs of wall bracing, "strapping," bucks, bracing the bucks, waterproofing below and above grade, has more than doubled the cost of the ICF. Notwithstanding I used triple the recommended "ties" between blocks, they still spread and were otherwise displaced, thus eliminating the "green" from the project. It has become clear that foam provides an invisible highway for termites, and "inspection" is not an option when the basement is finished. Placing wiring or plumbing after finishing -- maybe you decide to add something later, is a problem too. Think about it. I sincerely wish I had never heard of ICF. A complete waste of time, money, and effort.

5) this is NOT a DYI. I did it DYI...

I hope you can see how this point is sorta confusing. Typically, DIY refers to "Do It Yourself", but.......

Just about everything else you note is related to inexperience with ICF or concrete.

Posted By JollyOldDoug on 26 Nov 2014 03:03 AM
 
I sincerely wish I had never heard of ICF. A complete waste of time, money, and effort.

The problem is NOT ICF but it was your lack of skills and knowledge. ICF has been used thousands of times and it works great IF you know what you are doing and are qualified in installing it.

Don't bash ICF, it was not at fault, it was your lack of skills and know-how that was the problem here.

I suggest that cost is a common issue with ICFs that has little relation to lack of experience/skills. Conventionally formed concrete is an alternative worth considering - it might have lower cost, no need to cover the interior surface, less risk of un-patched voids, better insulation and better use of thermal mass - all with the same strength, air tightness and sound blocking ability.

Posted By jonr on 26 Nov 2014 11:28 AM
I suggest that cost is a common issue with ICFs that has little relation to lack of experience/skills. Conventionally formed concrete is an alternative worth considering - it might have lower cost, no need to cover the interior surface, less risk of un-patched voids, better insulation and better use of thermal mass - all with the same strength, air tightness and sound blocking ability.

Your statement has nothing to do with what the problem at hand was. I get you don't like ICF but the inexperience and lack of construction skills is what the problem was, not ICF.

I suggest counting how many times the word "cost" occurs in JollyOldDoug's post. If I didn't have to pay any more for it, I'd love to have an ICF house.

Posted By jonr on 26 Nov 2014 03:52 PM
I suggest counting how many times the word "cost" occurs in JollyOldDoug's post. If I didn't have to pay any more for it, I'd love to have an ICF house.

Doug got in over his head and attempted a 1st time DIY ICF build and he found out the hard way that it requires skills and knowledge that he did not posses. When he purchased/rented bracing, scaffolding, etc, for a one-time ICF job, of course costs got out of control. Adding to it were the concrete blow-outs and the out of square walls because he was trying to a skill he had no experience in. Many "DIY" people find out the hard way that it will cost them 2x-3x more to DIY than to hire a pro when it comes to things like ICF.

Quality comes with a price and just like with anything in life, it costs money to get quality materials and craftsmen.

Been quoting and pricing myself. I very seriously looked at ICF construction to the roof, but without additional insulation it would end up barely better than code min R values

So I am going to stick build, I still need a foundation. For a simple 28x40X9 rectangle I can get R40 eps for $2k less than R20 something icf blocks, that's enough to pay for the labor/forms, and I don't have to finish the interior before moving in.

I'm still toying with the idea of an ICF floor with polished concrete and radiant for the first floor.  Its a pretty hefty upcharge, but would save time instead of installing hardwood and tile

I did my ICF to the roof as a DIY, and had great success. I spent a lot of time learning about it first, including having a local ICF contractor as a consultant. I didn't have any problem with forms moving, and the entire structure came out far more level, plumb, and square than any house I've ever seen. Yes, there is a learning curve, yes, a lot of things are different, and yes, it did cost more. If I had it to do over, I'd still go ICF. The method is well-suited to one person, working alone, as long as you know what you're doing. If I went stick, I would have had no way to raise the walls alone, and I got so discouraged with the quality of lumber these days that I used steel studs for my interior framing. It was a huge job strapping and shimming my roof trusses to get a flat ceiling, and it would have driven me nuts trying to get the interior walls straight. The ICF walls are very, very straight. The house is performing very well, is very strong and quiet, and if the zombie apocalypse happens in my lifetime, the walls are bullet proof.

Jolly, I'm curious. What type of form did you use? You mentioned that you used extra ties, so I'm assuming it was a knock-down form.

Anyone use 2" fiberglass tape all the way around the outside of the top row before they pump concrete... I've found with a lot of windows on second level it helps a lot

fiber tape is not necessary if you are using a quality block that locks together. That said, screw a cleat on the the corner to next joint to prevent tip out on the corners.

9' foot ceilings one 30 foot wall had 2 - 6' x 6' windows and one 5' x 6 ' window another 36' wall had 2- 6' x 6' windows a 36" inch door and a 7' x 4' window all 90" to top of windows. Don't tell me about a quality block that locks together because there isn't one when you have zero full blocks on the top row. Hello!!!!


Okay; and two of the 6' x 6' windows were an inch from the inside corner.  The fiber glass tape was necessary and I used quality block.

I didn't ask if it was necessary I ask if anyone else used it.

Sorry but you hit a nerve, takes less than 5 minutes and is much quicker than running a 2 x 4 all the way around the house when you have a lot of windows that breach the integrity of the blocks that lock together.

Okay uerling - I guess I'm not understanding where you are using the tape. Tape was recommended in many of the early stages of the industry but I seldom see it used any more.

What is all 90" to top of window? Do you mean that the window header is 90" off the floor?

How would you finish a window that is only one inch from an inside corner? put drywall on and its only 1/2".

What block did you use?

Okay -now the pictures came through. Don't see anything unusual about the walls or any reason to add tape.

Beautiful view though! Well worth the extra windows!

OK FBBP, it's my job I make the call. Done it both ways.

I pump with a lot of velocity not slow and we have no voids in the concrete. I tape all the way around the house at about the center of the top block. Not vertical but horizontal. ... it holds the block together. Trust me there is nothing else there to hold them when you have that many windows.

Ninety inches to the top of the window not the typical eighty.

Customer wanted window to go through corner with no trim. As it is we have an inch of ICF and 2 1/4" of window buck with no trim; sheet rock will wrap the window buck.

Customer wanted window to go through corner with no trim. As it is we have an inch of ICF and 2 1/4" of window buck with no trim; sheet rock will wrap the window buck.

What is the elevation from the river to the base of the home? In other words, is it in a flood plain?

It's a lake and yes it's way above the flood gate.

Without question the lowest cost well insulated foundation is built with pressure treated wood. PWF construction is well proven in he US and over a million are in use.