Manual J and europiean windows
Last Post 26 Oct 2014 12:29 PM by krom. 11 Replies.
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kromUser is Offline
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08 Oct 2014 08:23 PM
So I'm sitting here with my paper manual J, and the spreadsheet downloaded from ACCA's website.  I am trying to figure out what values to use for U, and HTM for custom sized European triple pane windows (looking at u PVC zola and intus as of now)

Intus is showing NFRC results of 0.18-0.33  BTU/(hr.ft2.F) on their website

Zola is showing "Overall U-value of 0.14BTU/hr.sqft", "glass U-value of up to 0.09BTU/hr.ft2", and "Performance of entire window
assembly shall be independently tested
and be a minimum of R-7 at a test size of
assembly shall be independently tested
and be a minimum of R-7 at a test size of
and be a minimum of R-7 at a test size of 1.23m x 1.48m"

I know that the glass is a better insulator than the frames, am I being too picky thinking that each different sized window should be entered with its own U and HTM?
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 07:07 AM
Too picky.

The right software would give you more options and accuracy. I you can afford triple pane windows, you can afford to have a proper heat load modeled by an experienced designer. If you then want to check their work--long hand--thereby still qualifying for your OCD meds.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
kromUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 07:32 AM
Guess its the engineer in me...

Should I just use the values for triple pane windows from the tables in the book for now?

Suggestions for an experienced designer in central NY (4-5 hours north west of the city).

Opinions on the value of having it HERS rated?
BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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09 Oct 2014 08:30 PM
The book is close enough for the scale I assume you are building in.
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BadgerBoilerMNUser is Offline
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11 Oct 2014 10:09 AM
Too picky.

The right software would give you more options and accuracy. I you can afford triple pane windows, you can afford to have a proper heat load modeled by an experienced designer. If you then want to check their work--long hand--thereby still qualifying for your OCD meds.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
kromUser is Offline
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11 Oct 2014 12:25 PM
FWIW home despot quoted me $707 for a 36"x72" anderson casement (u 0.27 shg 0.18), while the quote for an intus tilt/turn is $839 ( u glass 0.088, shg 0.494)

Since U is measured differently, and the intus value is only for the glass its very difficult to compare. But the price difference isn't anywhere near as big as I was expecting.

Recommendations for software, or an experienced designer are more than welcome.

I'd prefer a designer, as buying quality software for a single small project doesn't make any sense. 

Budget is only $100k excluding land, footprint is 28x40, ridge of the roof will be running east/west (almost perfectly)  The view is due east.
fun2driveUser is Offline
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11 Oct 2014 11:50 PM
I posted for manual J suggestions regarding an expert calculation.
Here is the thread. I am sure the forum members that posted they can accomplish this task would also be able to calculate your manual J.
http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/14/aft/82784/afv/topic/Default.aspx

My situation requires a great deal more cooling than heating.
I saw your post on Andersen compared to Intus. I was surprised that the pricing was so close...
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12 Oct 2014 07:35 PM
Posted By BadgerBoilerMN on 09 Oct 2014 08:30 PM
The book is close enough for the scale I assume you are building in.


The location of the designer is irrelevant. All competent designers use ASHRAE data, usually in a Manual 'J' form such as our Wrightsoft program.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
kromUser is Offline
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13 Oct 2014 07:16 PM
I'm looking for someone in NY, because I didn't think that there would be very many outside of the state that are NYSERDA affiliated.
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13 Oct 2014 08:39 PM
I am not sure what "affiliation" entails but nearly everyone recognizes Manual 'J'. If NYSERDA requires something special they should be able to direct you to their affiliates. Best of luck.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
richmUser is Offline
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23 Oct 2014 09:54 PM
krom,

I found this to be very informative and might answer your questions regarding "u" and "uglass". Or it might encourage additional investigation and/or calculations

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/presumptive-european-superiority-syndrome?utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=eletter&utm_content=gba_eletter&utm_campaign=green-building-advisor-eletter

And, do you mean NYSERDA Affiliated or Approved - big difference!

Please let us know what you decide.

RichM
kromUser is Offline
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26 Oct 2014 12:29 PM
Been reading that, and running numbers. I'll let you know.

Hopefully someone will come along who can recommend a designer, or consultant .
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