1 or 2 mini-split heads for ICF home
Last Post 02 May 2015 01:29 AM by arcamm. 84 Replies.
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Bob IUser is Offline
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28 Apr 2015 07:56 AM
$6242 sounds like the contractor was sending you a message that he did not want the job. What were the other local contractors quoting, or was he the only one that would even quote it? Unless a contractor knows and understands what he is doing he is going to charge enough to cover his butt in any situation. Maybe this was his first, or maybe he had problems with previous installations. Anyway he clearly would not get repeat business. When these become common around the country, competition will increase and prices will come down, just like anything else.
Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant
Dana1User is Offline
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28 Apr 2015 03:11 PM
Average prices in the NEEA region (Pacific Northwest) 5 years ago when the NEEA was promoting & studying the market ductless systems were running something like $3750/ton, installed which would have made the FE18 about $5.6K. But everybody I know personally in that region who has installed them has paid substantially less. I saw one outlier quote for an FE18 that was close to $6K, as well as a ~$5K quote for a 1-ton Fujitsu, both at a house where an FE18 was eventually installed for under $4.5K.

The knowledge to even know what constitutes a "...cheap but serviceable two-stage evacuation pump ..." isn't gained in a 5 minute YouTube vidi, let alone where to get it. And with anything there's a learning curve. Yes, refrigeration techs can make a decent margin, and yes DIYers who want to take the time to learn how to do it can get there, and put the tools up on eBay or craigslist when they're done, if you want to make it your part time hobby. Road time, the cost of money, and business overhead cost will vary with location & business volumes. Out of that $2000 for an afternoon in a state like VT comes a cost on the order of about $100/man-hour for just the direct labor, and they still need to pay for capitalization the truck, the sales & marketing, keeping the office lights on etc. Yes, they make a decent margin at $4500, but it's not necessarily a gouge. (Anybody paid health insurance premiums on employees for a small company lately? How about unemployment insurance?) At $6K+ it feels pretty steep.

In the past I've encouraged people who couldn't find competitive pricing (or ANY local installers) to do most of it DIY, and let a tech with the tools & experience commission the thing, at a cost that is comparable to (usually less than) the cost of the tools, as long as their expectations regarding warranty obligations around that tech time aren't ridiculous. The guy who shows up for a couple of hours to finish it off should not be burdened with anything like the responsilibities of a contractor who specified & sourced the thing, and charged full freight, but it's really not a bad way to go. I'd do that before paying $6242 for an FE18, but I'd be surprised if patonbike couldn't find somebody to come in with a quote well under $5K, or even something like $4K for an FH15 or 15RLS3H. The VT subsidies for cold-climate mini-splits has the unintended effect of driving the quoted prices a bit higher than it would be in an un-subsidized / less-subsidized market. Collecting on the subsidy requires a certified installer, but it's not such a fat subsidy that it would cover a large fraction of the installation cost. (In some parts of WA the subsidy really IS that fat, or at least was when I last looked.)

For the record, I'm not in the HVAC biz, nor to I have a financial interest in any HVAC biz (but I'm pretty sure I can spec a mini-split. :-) )
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29 Apr 2015 06:41 AM
It is good to be informed. I hire professionals in various trades, even a couple of my own, because I want things done right the first time and spend considerable time correcting other professional's mistake. The average cost of these corrections is 50% of the original. On occasional the original contractor actually charged a fair rate, but much more often the sub-standard job was performed by the low-bidder.

The beauty of the whole thing is that you don't have to take his price.

We get paid to install every mini-split, perfectly sized and installed, every time. If while installing a mini-split we happen to hit gas, electrical or, God help us, a bundle of com wire up in the wall where it has no business being, we have to deal with.

I too, design many systems for DIY and professionals alike. Gauging the clients skills set, tools and experience is really a challenge in many cases, even if they are highly technical types, e.g. IT, ME, EE, PE's etc.

Every market is different, codes, trade skills, price of equipment, cost of labor, taxes and so on. It pays to get an estimate, even three, but buying expensive HVAC appliances on the internet, thereby voiding warranty, can't be called best practice in most areas. If you can afford the tools, training and self insure in case your new mini doesn't work out-of-the-box, then you're all set.
MA<br>www.badgerboilerservice.com
Dana1User is Offline
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29 Apr 2015 04:05 PM
Well said, Morgan.
arcammUser is Offline
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02 May 2015 01:29 AM
Posted By Dana1 on 03 Apr 2015 03:58 PM
Unless a room has a heat load of a LEAST 4500 BTU/hr even the smallest ductless heads will be cycling on/off rather than modulating.


Would that 4500 BTU/hr limit include a 6000 BTU/hr head?
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