We are building our first ICF residence using the TF systems product. My firm decided on TF after evaluating several competing products. At the end of the day TF's product is the easiest for our existing pour in place crew to learn and execute. Since 90% of our work (this year at least) will remain pour in place it just doesn't make sense to train a new crew on the different ICF systems.

My question is what is the realistic max pour height for a monolithic wall? Crew size, pumping and compacting is not an issue for us. For bracing we will use the same steel scaffolding system used for pour in place (probably way overkill, but its our first ICF job). I have spoken with the TF systems Engineer who suggested that we could easily pour in excess of 30'  in 4' lifts if we lifted forms during the pour and then slide them back down before the next lift. This seems a little peculiar  to me considering the c-channel top that goes on these forms. If you remove the channel doesn't this comprise the integrity of the formed wall? Is it possible to pour 4' then reattach the channel and re-establish a plumb and straight wall?

Second question is how to deal with a cold seam if we use standard 12' pours in 3 lifts? My thinking is to screed the last lift using the channels, then place a key form and finally place the rebar for the next level. Similair work flow to a slip form system.

Finally, for those with experience with the TF system, any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

For reference this project is a luxury residence in the NYC suburbs. The main house is 10k living space plus full basement. Basement ceiling height is 10', 1st floor=12', 2nd floor=10'. Total wall height from footing to rafter is 38'. Floors are engineered wood hanging from imbeds. Roof is engineered truss system. Wall thickness is 10". House is round as a donut in the back. Front is square with 4 bays at 45 deg to main wall.

10" of concrete or 10" total foam & concrete.

Dave

Just wondering, what's the price tag on a house of this magnitude?  Over 1 million?

The question that I would ask is, why if you think this product is superior to other products, you are asking for help on the ICF web. This sounds like a project that needs good supervision from a distributor who is willing to teach as well as sell a product. Having been in this business for 17 years I have seen and used many products, and most do the job for which they are intended. So saying one product is superior to another srtictly depends on the situation in which they are used. If your distributor is not willing to give onsite instruction, then find another distributor for this product or choose another product that will.

My guess regarding the comment to "lift" panels as you pour is probably based on getting the concrete further down inside the wall versus a potential drop of 20+ feet.

Why are you concerned with a monolithic pour, when the ICF industry is typically based on 8'-14' pours normally? The occurence of rebar projections to tie the walls together is used everyday including seismic and hurricane areas?

You already have concrete experience but noone explained how to incorporate other ICF blocks and styles using your existing equipment? Interesting!

Wow,now that's quite a first time project. With TF or any other icf you should find someone to add to your crew who really knows your particular icf. Although very do able this a very problematic pour. It will require a very large experienced crew that is not afraid of very long hard work. I'm find a way to reduce pour heights if possible. Eldon Howe

Jim,

I was attempting to get some feedback so I could make a decision between cold joints and monolithic pour with sensible drop heights. Do you key your cold joints and use rebar or rebare alone?

We found that the products used in conjunction with forms aren't the right solution for our firm. The crews and the forms are fully scheduled and we are looking at this as a new business opportunity.

I asked for feedback from those with experience with TF systems. I also said that we evaluated several systems and concluded that TF was the best fit for our crew.

Sorry, if I wasted your time.

If a dealer tells me he has a new truck that gets 20 miles per gallons towing a full load of block. I am going to ask a few people about their experience. I thought that's what forums are for.

Last post was a reply to smart wall

Vermaraj,

The cold joint in the wall does not matter for strength if it is being transected by rebar.  Make sure you pay attention to your rebar lap length.  We use rebar alone, no key, in a seismically active zone.  The caveat to this is I will not create a cold joint below grade for waterproofing reasons.  One other thing is we leave all of our vertical rebar below the top of the wall by 2" for the easy of pouring then go back and wet set our transecting bars after the pour.

ICF Contractor

"I was attempting to get some feedback so I could make a decision between cold joints and monolithic pour with sensible drop heights."

That's just it, no one I know in this industry is going to suggest 30' tall ICF pours, immaterial of who's block you use!

It also appears that you looked into other styles of ICFs, and determined to use TF. My comments were not adverse to TF but rather an inquiry as to possible other types working for you. However, this was asked before you clarified you felt TF was the best for this situation.

By the way, if you decide to pour in excess of 30' monolithically,(assumed in a reasonable period of time), as encouraged by the TF engineer, I'd make sure his position on pouring day is right there on the staging with you...:-)

vermaraj.
You can do a mono pour on an ICF wall by caluclating the amount of concrete it takes to go around the entire circumference of the building in a one foot lift. If it is 400 ft of wall length and 10" thinck then you need 12 + yards per one foot lift. If you can pump 50 yards an ahour then you can put about 4 foot an hour in the forms. If you have a half hour delivery time then your first load is an hour and a half old when you get to four of liquid concrete. It is starting to set and will begin to carry some of the stress from the liquid head. This all means that you should limit your pour rate in the forms to 6 foot maximum per hour. If you cut a "Bird Mouth" into the side of the forms every 6 foot in height and pour through the openings you can do the pour in 5 + hours, never have a cold joint, never exceed the capacity of the foam, never drop the concrete more then 6 foot, vibrate the pour very easily with a small vibrator. never place much strain on your bracing system and have a very successful pour.
Regards,
Joe