What is the best method (ICF construction) to connect the garage footers to the basement walls?  Should I pour my basement footers, then pour my basement walls and garage footers at the same time?  the garage will be the same level as the house (no step up). 

On the front of the garage, I plan to stick frame around the garage doors.  It seems a waste of effort to go with ICF for the minimal amount of wall around the doors.  Thoughts?

I'm not sure why no one has jumped on this topic yet, but I haven't been on the site for awhile and it always looks different everytime I come back.

Personally, and that is if you are still looking for any opinions, I would do the footings and walls in two seperate pours. I have heard of contractors doing the walls and footings at the same time and being successful. But the amount of time and materials that go into preparing for such an awkward and unpredictable pour seem unecassary.

If you are, and I assume you will, do ICF from the basement to the trusses (except for the front of the garage) then there is no need to connect your walls to your footings in any other way besides rebar dowelling. There is no requirement where I'm from to connect via monolithic pour so, why do it the hard/wasteful way?

My question for you: Why don't the lower (basement) and upper (main level of home) footings connect via a step footing? I ask because I don't have a clue of the layout of the site other than what you've said.

Jesse,
ICF Pro
Southern Oregon

There is no step from the garage to the house...primarily because this is a house I plan to grow old in.  Should a wheel chair become a factor in my or my wifes later years, this will be one less hurdle to overcome. 

Thanks for the reply,

Doug

Dug:
If I understood that correctly you will have to determine this question by your accessibility to the site. I would say most in this situation would pour the basement walls first deck it, back-fill, excavate for the garage, and pour footings and stems from a redd-imix truck if accessible. In this case you will form a small Leeds in your basement footings where your garage attaches. After pouring basement walls you will waterproof and dry-stack a masonry block pier off that leed up-to bottom of garage footing height. At this point you have rebar dowels sticking out of basement wall pours where the footing is located. Cover the empty cores of the block with plywood, and back-fill accordingly. When excavating the garage finish the last 12" where the leed walls are by hand and remove ply.. Form garage footings on top of pier/leed and proceed the same as normal and fill block Pier with footing mix as you pour garage footings. Don't remove the foam where the garage attaches due to moisture/water migration as long as you doweled all courses into the garage, footing included. Remember all the back-fill at this point is on both sides of them stem wall so the rebar is more than sufficient.

If you can't get around the site well, than you will have to pour the garage leed wall, garage wall and basement monolithicly.

Dave

Dug
A couple things, I don't know if you have any concrete construction experience or not?

The footings will be stepped, AND after you pour the walls of the basement, the complete basement wall should also be waterproofed, including the area where the garage abuts the basement. You will have poured the sections of footings for the garage at least at the connecting lower level, you can pour the balance of the footings during the basement ICF pour.

Two thoughts here, are you planning on using ICFs also for the garage foundation walls? Are you planning on using the ICFs for the garage above grade walls? If there is no living space above the garage, this is probably a waste. As to the front walls of the garage, the framing may or may not pass the required code shear wall elements? You need to clarify this before you start. If you are using the ICFs for the garage above grade, the time spent doing a stop in the wall at the corner would be easier just turning the corner and pouring up to the garage buck!

By the way, there will be a 4"-6" step from the garage into the house and the garage slab will be sloped to the exterior, per the IRC code, however, you can install a ramp then. The reason is keeping flammable garage products out of the domicile!

First, I have no concrete experience...

I plan to use ICF on the garage above grade only.  Considering I will not have living space above the garage, it sounds like you recommend stick framing?  If so, why?

My plans call for the garage slab to be 1/2 inch below the house subfloor with a 4 inch drop to the garage doors. 

After reading the responses and contemplating the process, I may be better off pouring the basement footers, then stacking the basement walls and garage footers (with ICF), then stacking the first floor, house and garage...or should I stick with ICF on the house and stick frame the garage??? Or stick frame the whole dang thing! ; -)  Sometimes the simplest things get so dang confusing...

I will have an experienced concrete guy (flat work) helping me on this project.  He builds one spec home per year and wants to help on this project to gain ICF experience. 

If you are in the garage a lot during the winter working on projects then I would go with icf for the garage. If costs are more important it may be worth while to just frame the garage since it is not a heated living space. The key factor that I would point out to you is that no matter what method you choose (stick or icf for the garage) you should seriously consider building a thermal break icf wall between the garage and the house to maximize your homes ability for air tightness and thermal efficiency.

Keep in mind that there is a lot of work that can go into building concrete lintels above larger openings such as garage doors. I have seen rebar schedules from engineers that range from 4-8" o.c. stirrups with 4 or more bars of horizontal steel. These take time to build properly so do some research and be prepared!

oh yeah dont go stick on the house ;)

- Pete

dug
After a quick review of the current code for me, it appears that changes allow the 1/2" drop, instead of the old 4" min. Check your local codes.

I agree with pete about the garage. Am I saying don't bother with ICfs for the garage? Basically yes, except for the foundation. If you don't have someone for the garage foundation to do a regular stem wall, then by all means use iCFs for the the garage foundation also. Then if there is no living space above the garage, I would not use ICFs. Too costly for practical use.

I plan on radiant heat in the garage to keep the floor a tolerable level, but no serious work outside of weekend projects...and those times when the wife won't let me in the house.

The lintels above the garage doors seem daunting enough to completely avoid the subject.  I am liking the idea of stick framing the garage and using ICF for the house only.  The house is a rectangle, 54 x 32 with a small bumpout in the basement (under the front porch to be used as a safe room...the wife insists.)  2x4s in the garage with icynene should do the trick...

 

2x4s in the garage with icynene should do the trick...

I agree, but as you said "tolerable", using regular old inferior batt insulation may provide enough cost difference to pay for the radiant loop!

Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Icyene, I believe, only has an R-Value of about 3.6 per inch. High density fiberglass has an R-Value of about 4.3. And, unless you have a door(s) that seals extremely tight, sealing the walls won't do you much good.

Just a little tid bit, did the 2X4 and insulated I had the same perception of occasional use Dummy me I use it almost daily for my hobbies cabinet making picture framing and auto restoration. Get along great with the wife just love to be active and my shop gives me the ability to do that while doing things I enjoy and the wife does a bunch of the finish work on the cabinets that we make so she spends time in the shop as well.

By the way 30 X 60 is not enough room wish it was bigger and had partitions to divide the different things we do, I am not allowed to be grinding on a car while she is doing the staining and varnishing on a cabinet. Looks like I will have to build a new shop and use the old one for what it was intended vehicle storage, the structure was built for a garage slash work shop and the poor cars have not seen the inside of the shop in ten years.

Guys use a 3 1/2" water pump discharge hose (looks like a automotve radiator hose) as your expansion joint placed directly below the door and pour the floor and apron up to it, use your concrete edger to put a radius in next to the tube so you do not have sharp edge there. This gives you your expansion joint, a thermal break, and some flex to help your door seal better. If you ever do damage it (we had a customer catch his with a forklift on a commercial building) peel it out and you have a nice C-Channel to install the new one.