I NEED HELP!!!  My husband and I built a our dream home over 7 years ago using ICF.  The only way we could build our home was by doing a lot of the work ourselves.  My brother, who has his own construction company, introduced us to ICF.  Needless to say this was the first house my brother or anyone else in the area has built with ICF. 

The problem-  After a couple of years we notices a couple of small leaks coming from the middle of the basement walls.  Just little trickles of water none of which made a puddle on the floor.  We thought we patched them up because we didn't notice anymore water.

We then drywalled the basement and left it that way until recently.  We noticed more wet spots through some drywall.  We began removing the drywall &part of the ICF to get a better look at how the water is coming in.  It looks like when we poured the walls the mixture wasn't correct and it didn't adhere properly in some places.  In other spots, the leaks are coming from the tabs, leading us to believe that the outside of the house wasn't properly sealed for water.

We have talked to everybody we could and the solution seems to be to re-excavate & re-do the waterprooffing.  That's a lot of money and landscaping.  But if that is the only guarenteed way to stop all the "wall" leaks, we have to do it.

Does anyone have any other ideas????  We didn't get any strong feedback about sealing the walls from the inside would work.  We may be trying to sell our home because our taxes have gone up $6,000+ just this year and it's too expensive.  Now we have the leaks. 

Please, if you have any suggestions they will be greatly appreciated.  Thank You.
Paula

Review the exterior conditions first.
Is the landscaping sloped away from the building?
Are the gutters and downspouts functioning correctly?
Is there a footing drain, AND is it open and working.

It sounds like you have midlevel water, which typically indicates something wrong on the surface. Sealing the walls on the interior won't work!

When you have leaks at the footing, that a whole new game!

If your drainage is correct your walls should not leak even without waterproofing. start there first. slope and gutters.

Follow all postings above first to solve this problem. If it continues latter on and you have to excavate make sure you use a air gap membrane.

Dave

I've never heard of an "air gap membrane", This is a membrane that creates an air gap?

The problem may be negative grade at the home perimeter, but if so, I would expet to see moisture intrusion higher on the wall if exterior grade is near the top of the basement walls.

Gravity will push moisture down through the soil until it meets an impermeable layer, at which point it will continue to be moved by gravity laterally along that layer. It may be that the impermeable layer may be at the mid level of your basement wall, in which cases negative slope around the home perimeter will not be the problem.

The problem may be poor damp-proofing. Since ICF's are laid as blocks, damp-proofing must seal the cracks between blocks.
It may also be that concrete voids exist whithin the ICF. This has been a problem with some systems and there have been some very unhappy campers. Voids in the concrete grid will offer avenues for moisture intrusion.

Is this a flat lot? Is leakage on the uphill side of a sloped lot? Are there plumbing supply lines in the walls which have leaks?

The term "damp-proofing" is just a feel good term for CHEAP ATTEMPTS AT WATER CONTROL. You get what you pay for.

I do not allow dampproofing for my projects.

Jim,

I agree. If someone goes to the extra expense of using ICFs for a bacement, it would imply it will be finished living space or at least a high quality shop. Not investing in a working water proofing system, perimeter drains, gravel back fill, adiquate surface slope and ICF coatings, makes no sence.

Patrick T

Walltech has it right.
Peel and stick membranes will not allow water to exit once water has penetrated...that's why an "air gap" membrane is better.
If water enters the"air gap" membrane it falls immediately to footing level, because it has many vertical pathways.
The water will then transfer to the perimeter weeper tile ( french drain) system, for gravity or mechanical removal.
You are going to have to dig up the perimeter to cure your problem.

For more info on air gap membranes, google System Platon.

Hi Guys & thank you for your responses. First, I would like to address Patrick T. Please don't ASSUME we didn't use gravel back fill, check our surface slope, have perimeter drains or ICF coating, because we DID! ICF homes are more expensive, especially over 4,600 sq. ft. but the monthly savings on bills are worth it.

Something went wrong or we did something wrong, either way I need to stop the water leaking from the basement walls. Drains, gutters, sump pump, etc. are all working well. I don't quite understand "kenton's" response. What is a impermeable layer? Or air gap membrane? The leaks are on 3 sides of the house now. They are in random spots, high & low. But "kenton" I think you hit it on the head in your last paragraph about sealing between the blocks & concrete voids. If these are the problems what can be done?
Thank You All Again,
Paula

Paula
Please clarify which ICF "coating" was used.

I typically use Tuff-n-Dri as the waterproofing spray on membrane...it's very good, and it's on my own home!

Paula,

 

Not assuming anything on your project. I was agreeing with Jim on the diff between damp proofing and water proofing. Where is your sump pump? Sounds like you may be fighting a spring. What is your drainage system now? how much gravel? Sealing materials?

Many don't understand water removal and soil types. The airgap membrane allows the water that does penetrait  the surfacea a quick path down to the perimeter drain. It's some what like 'buble wrap'. Gravel can be used as well but, it needs to be the material up agaist the wall and start nearly at the top all the way down to the footer drain. Both of these systems remove hydraulic presure. This presure is based on H, height. With gravel or airgap membrane there is no "H" because the water falls to the botton with out any restriction. If you put 12" of gravel over your drain pipe, then geotex fabric to filter out the dirt and finally backfilled, you will have Hydrualic presure at about 9' and above. Soill types will either help or hurt a situation. sand drains well, clay can act as a sealing layer. Farm ponds are made of clay.



Water Entry points; footer/wall attacment, voids from bad consolidation and connection ties used in the ICF. I have a conventional poured bacement I use as a garage/workshop. Metal wall ties are used to hold the in and outside form sections together. Several of my wall ties weep rusty water. With high hydraulic pressure, even the smallest path will weep water. On the other hand, I've seen concrete block walls that have bowed/cracked due to years of hydralic presure be repaired/water tight by re-digging the perimeter and back filling with gravel.

I don't think it will be practical for you to repair from the inside. I have seen where convential concrete and block walls have been sealed from the inside with very limited sucess. In some cases they created a small dam around the inside perimeter to channel the water to a sump drain, very tacky for real living space. If you have a finished space, I would think the cost would be very high for inside repairs

Get a price to re-dig your perimeter. Plan to have it done during the dry period of your region. Use drainage gravel or stone, 3/8" to 5/8" with no dust or chips.

Paula,

An "impermeable layer" is rock or clay through which water can't pass. Water soaks into the ground and keeps on moving downward until it hits something it can't pass through, then it runs downhill. So if there's rock or a layer of clay or some other material that water can't pass through down near the level of the middle of your basement wall, runoff will run along the top of that layer until it reaches your home. It'll try to find a way through your wall and if there's any way through the wall into the home, you'll have a leak.

To my knowledge, air gap membranes (membranes which provide channels for water to move through have mostly been used in combination with another membrane on synthetic stucco walls to let any water getting behind the stucco drain .

Using it with ICF's is an interesting Idea, but doesn't it mean that water is already behind the membrane and in contact with the ICF wall, looking for a spot to leak through? Or would you use two membranes? Is this a system you've already used or that use use all the time?

Hi Guys. You gave me some great information in simple terms, I appreciate that. I will be giving this information to my husband & others to try and figure out my problem.

Jim, my sump pump is in the north-west corner of the house. The biggest problem is on the west wall of the basement. I will try to find out how much gravel we used for drainage and as far as the spray sealant used on the outside of the ICF goes, my brother did say after our house they changed to another product. One that worked better.

Kenton- this was the first time we used ICF. If the ICF was properly sealed on the outside(obviously ours didn't work well) and then our dryvit was applied, we shouldn't have leaks. I don't think anything else was placed between the dryvit and sealed ICF. I will be getting estimates to dig around my house so we'll see how that goes.

Thank you again for all of your great input. I hope we are getting closer to find out why the walls leak and how to make them stop. KEEP THINKING! Paula

Ooops. Somewhere I missed the fact that you have Dryvit. Synthetic stucco is famous for causing moisture problems, mostly related to the fact that once moisture gets behind it, It's often trapped because sythetic stucco is an impermeable membrane.

In installing Modern EIFS they use two layers of membrane, one of which is an air gap membrane such as Walltech and Patrick have already been mentioned. Basically it's a building wrap with channels built in to it which allow moisture to drain down and out.

Your leak is underground and it sounds like what's already been posted is likely the problem, or at least part of it.

You could try and add some weep hole tubes above grade this is very inexpensive and would address the potential water issue if it is absorbing through your stucco, this is probably not the perfect solution but at least you would get an idea if this leaking is related to your stucco or if it is below grade.

On a wild guess, do these leaks mirror locations of windows or doors above???   Many times the failure is in the detailing of the EIFS above grade.  Once the water is in the foam or along the concrete, it will allow gravity to take it to the basement slab....I'd investigate this before digging up the yard and installing more waterproofing and drainage.....This has happened before and people have had big expenses for this and solved nothing.  Where are you located?

Hi Ian.  I live in a suburb about 1hr. outside of Chicago.  I would like to invite any of the ICF specialists, builders, etc. to come and take a look at my problem and give us any insite on where to begin.  If I could download pictures here I would.

As for the leaks, most of them are under a window or patio door from the first floor.  There is only one leak coming from under a window from the basement.  °

If I could get some of you ICF professionals together to come and take a look at my basement & come up with a solution, that would be great.  Anyway, please keep your ideas coming because we are still trying to figure out which way to start.
Thanks!
Paula 

Paula, ...
I was called in to look at a leaking basement that was constructed of concrete blocks and had brick veneer exterior above grade. After the owner TWICE paid to have the basement excavated and re-waterproofed, (the second time waterproofed with copper sheeting), they still had leaks. The builder provided me with a set of drawings of the home and that was helpful in solving the problem. I discovered that the front porch (portico) slab with split brick flooring, ... was poured in place on top of the concrete block basement wall. Rain water was penetraing the split brick and through the concrete slab and INTO THE CORES OF THE CONCRETE BLOCK WALL. I removed the split brick, installed a 60 mil peal & stick membrane on top of the slab, flashed the portion of the wall where the slab joined the block wall and re-installed the spit brick. The basement has not leaked in 15 years. You may have a similar scenario with your patio door area. You may try to get someone to look at your detail drawings and see if that sort of situation pertains to your basement.

Good Luck!

Romie P.
Mobile, Alabama

HOT DOG IAN

How did we all, except you, miss that one??

Paula
Whcih suburb? I went to Barrinton High School, and last lived in Glen Ellyn area, until 86.

Paula,
The idea that the problem started some years later points in Ians direction, but don't discount your own postings. You have stated that gutters and sump are in good order along with apropriate grade, and that these wet spots don't puddle. If the foundation was back filled with a pourus fill, gravel, peastone or sand I would doubt any problem would excist without any water/damp proofing at all as somebody else suggested.. If the foundation was backfilled with in-apropriate fill i.e. clay/ etc. my guess would be your previous statements " we poured with improper mix" and the leaks seam to be coming from the "tabs" is implying improper consolidation around the tie/tab. That statement makes me believe that it is leaking below grade. Your brother said he has since left a particular brand of spray for another, our experience in the past with spray membranes has been negative. As we/I posted above about air-gap membranes (which some above implied as something behind the stucco) is a membrane specifically used for below grade waterproofing methods i.e D.M.X, Sytem Platon and or Delta MS, which could potentially fix the problem if it is a below grade issue. At what height are the water spots? And did you use a knock down system? If I lived with-in a reasonable distance I would help out, but I'm 8 hours away and only hope someone close can help out. Which dirrection an hour away do you live?

Dave