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ICF's and Hollow Core Planks
Last Post 27 Apr 2007 09:22 PM by irnivek. 9 Replies.
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tc-cad
 New Member
 Posts:18
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| 24 Apr 2007 12:52 PM |
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Hello I know it has been done before but I have some questions. After much research about the different flooring methods. Hollow Core seems to be the most economical method. Can any one with experience in the hollow core flooring please share the positive and negative using this method with ICF walls.
Questions I have:
Footings, do they need to be beefed up for the weight of the concrete?
Hollow core toppings, what really is required?
Can real wood flooring be installed on concrete?
Will infloor heat be sucked right up the exterior walls?
Are there any detail of a hollow core where it meets the ICF construction. For example the ICF forms are 16" tall. The hollow cor is 8" tall. Do I just cut the inside form/foam for the "next level" of wall to be installed?
How much ledge does hollow core require to rest on?
Thanks
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Chris Johnson
 Advanced Member
 Posts:878
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| 24 Apr 2007 04:03 PM |
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Depends where you are located for solid answers, I have done plenty of hollow core slabs, the footings do need to be calc'd by the S.E. based on soils, etc.
I always had a min. 2" cap, but these things have a camber to them, so 2" in the middle but the edges have more, and more depends on the length and amount of camber on the slab. When I did garage floors and had to slope them the door area had a min 2" and the back wall varied, again depending on length and the desired slope of the floor, the S.E. will dictate this to you on his drawings.
Wood Flooring can be installed, the heat is not sucked up into the walls, there will be some transfer, but not a noticable amount, heat rises.
Most larger ICF manufacturers have basic connection details available on there web site down loads. I have a picture but cannot post it due to its size, send me a msg w an e-mail address and I can send it directly to you.
And lastly I used to keep 4" bearing on the concrete portion of the wall.
Chris
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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tc-cad
 New Member
 Posts:18
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| 26 Apr 2007 08:16 AM |
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I just received pricing for 8" plank. Just over $7.00 per square foot installed and grouted. How does this compare to other methods? |
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icfcontractor
 Basic Member
 Posts:277
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| 26 Apr 2007 10:04 PM |
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TC,
That is about right for the panels. Now you will need to pour a topping slab of at least 2 inches. This slab installed will cost anywhere from $1.5 to $3 per sqft depending on many factors. This will put your floor in the range of $9 to $10 installed. This will put you in a similar range of a cast in place system.
ICF Contractor |
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walltech
 Basic Member
 Posts:390
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| 26 Apr 2007 10:31 PM |
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Price suggestions above are very accurate as to the finished cost based on a $7.00 per sq core cost. The $7.00 price range seems quite low unless your talking about a very large project. We have one going here that's over 150,000 sq and its slightly over $7.00 and smaller projects under 3000 usually run $10,00 plus just for the core slab.
As to your question of handling the transition from the floor to the next courses this will depend on elevation details and can become allot more labor intensive than Hambro. Core slabs require a 3" minimum but I think that may vary with manufactures.
Walltech |
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woulfcc
 Basic Member
 Posts:147
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| 26 Apr 2007 11:22 PM |
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Look harder, the footings, the walls all need to be larger to handle the extra load for 8" of hollow core plank. Is this also the entire cost for core drilling for pluming, heating &cooling duct work, and electrical penetrations? A Plummer or an electrician will charge a good price for this. As well they should its work to drill through 10" of concrete. Dose the price of $7.00 including the crane rental, 2" of toping, and the drop ceiling you need to finish below the floor for all the utility’s that need to run under the ceiling of the level below. So this 8" floor IS actually 20" from finish ceiling to finish floor. All of this adds up to the $7.00 price and is not fingered in. Just look a little harder and you will see what I am getting at. Price is not always what you’re looking for or at when you are comparing one system of floor to an other. This is problems we have seen with plank flooring in the commercial field for years. They don’t change in residential flooring the just get bigger
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| Changing How the World BUILDS!<br>Green , Done , Easy<br>Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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tc-cad
 New Member
 Posts:18
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| 27 Apr 2007 09:37 AM |
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What do I need a crane for, I stated that is the installed price. I do realize that this does not create a finished product any more than 2x12 with plywood does. No method is a done deal. All I was asking, which no one seems to be able to answer is how does this compare (in$$$) to other methods, ie speed floor, hambro, wood, etc. I have gotten a quote on hambro and just the first floor was more than this quote. As far as the ceiling goes can't it be done with the "Popcorn Finish" they seem to use that in the million dollar condo's in Florida. Heating would be infloor, but yes cooling may be a problem, may have to get creative. If any one want to quote on this I have a set of plans I can e-mail out. I am in Wisconsin. Thanks |
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Chris Johnson
 Advanced Member
 Posts:878
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| 27 Apr 2007 12:02 PM |
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I have a preference for Hollow Core slabs over other methods, the main reason is the speed, installing the slabs is faster than any other flooring system, once placement starts, even before the slabs are complete, the crew can be standing more ICF blocks right on the perimeter. I have finished the job, than gone back and poured the cap once everything is done, roof on/windows in. Pricing multifamily and commercial work I can usually shave weeks to months off the schedule using ICF and core slab as opposed to conventional frame walls and conventional frame floor system with a smaller crew. Hollow Core does require a bit more pre-planning for items such as plumbing having to be cut through the slabs and you want to make sure you don't hit a cable. The underside may need soffits built for plumbing and HVAC runs, but pre-planning can minimize this, I understand the 20" floor thickness, but it is usually in certain areas, you do not have to drop the whole ceiling, unless soffits bother you and I have also had resiliant channel installed to hide the conduit/BX cable from being exposed and then drywall applied.
Chris
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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tc-cad
 New Member
 Posts:18
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| 27 Apr 2007 12:55 PM |
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Chris
Thanks for the positive response. I agree with everything you said. I too think planning and thinking out side the box is the key. |
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irnivek
 Basic Member
 Posts:229
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| 27 Apr 2007 09:22 PM |
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In regards to your question for "a detail for hollow core plank with ICF construction"
The one sided form on the perimeter often becomes a labor intensive operation when enveloping the HC with ICF. Engineering details requiring tying wall steel into the HC slab can also be a bit tricky, as the bar is in the way to fly the planks in...
We have a picture of the cold joint HC/ICF detail on our website, www.icfinstall.com Click on gallery, and "three story school" At least 3 inches of bearing has always been neccessary, and we have never yet had a HC spec'd with six inch concrete core..
Kevin |
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