Okay, here is a challenge, I am willing to bet that the footers we are working on now, are the most out of level footings ever constructed on.  Please post the worst you ever have had to work off of, out of level, that you have ever had to scribe or shim your block to.

I will post a picture on sunday, to proove just what an extreame in footing errors can be, however hope to hear from all of you on just how bad a footing you have had to work on.

Please remember, this is for out of level, not square, just out of level.

Mark Ross

Builder gave me a footing 2 1/2" out of level back in 01, middle of January...snow, 230 l/f, took me 3 days to scribe and shim...it was a good lesson, now I can scribe ICF to a rock and do that in a little over a day.

Owner Builders who want to do there own footing get scared when my contract says $ 20.00 per L/F for the entire foundation if the footing/slab is more than 1/4" out of level...they usually pay me to do the footing at that point...it's not a scare tactic (Actually reading it I guess it is) I am tired of building of footings that look like the ocean

Several years ago, we had such a problem. At the time, we were using 2x's laid on the flat temporaraly attached to the footer to stablize the wall during the pour. In the case we attached a 2x6 on edge to form a L bracket, leveled the forms to the high point of the footer and screwed the forms to the vertical leg of the L bracket. This worked very well. So well, in fact, that we started doing it on a regular basis. We now use a metal J bracket that is screwed to the footer and wall forms and is left in place permanently.

I would have to say that the worst was when we where to busy to do our own and hired a sub to do the footings. This was on a 30 unit condo with basement garage and two story above in a side hill. from one end of the condo to the other we found a 14" differance in footing elevation.

Turns out the sub had lost his contractor license the year before because of this type of work but was still using the number to build. Guess this is our fault for not checking there credentials but just taking there word for the fact that they knew what they where doing.

We did not build on this footing but removed it and started over cost allot of overtime lesson learned the hard way did not pay the sub and we are being sued for that payment now, hope the judge is not an idiot.

This same crew did a job for one of our customers and he did not remove the footing but shimmed and filed off forms to make it all work, he had approx 94mnhrs extra into his then what we had in to remove and replace.

I can not stress enough that the footer is the most important part of an ICF build when it comes to straight, level, and plumb.

Further more if you do have to hire subs check them out, I know that some times when we are busy we let things slide, just like not slump testing and sooner or later it will bite you in the (well you know where).

By the way good method Wes, we also used that on a job where for some reason we had one spot 8' long where the footer fell 1 1/2" during the pour, we suspect a small cavity in that area that did not break through during excavation but fell with the weight of the concrete on it. ( possible rotting tree root).

We probed the area after words but found no more pocket. so your method was employed to get the project back on track.

Mark, I worked with a DIY one time who was square also but 3-4" out of level. The footings where pretty flat but very obvious that the laser was out of whack. Unfortunately I had to show them how to fix the problem, but all and all they have been a great customer ever since.

Dave

Thus far, these are the worst, I will post tomorrow, a picture to prove just how bad these are. Any one else with a good "worst footing level"?

Mark Ross

Okay, here it is 36-1/4" out of level, let alone over 20" out of square.


Mark Ross

Oh hell, that's no worse than building on rock, at least it's pretty consistant

rock you expect it, I have two rock jobs i did that were more than 20' out of level, this was poured footings gauranteed to me to be level. Worst, they did not finish the tops, each block is scribed.

Mark Ross

Yes, a footing you would expect level

Hence my contract and because of the original post above from me

"Footings more than 1/4" out of level and a charge of $ 20.00 per l/f of wall for the entire project is added to the invoice"

Hey...were there power lines nearby?

No power lines nearby.

BTW had a contact with the guy one particular line in the contract says that we charge $25.00 per 1/4"per 10' out of level on footings. this would have cost him over $80,000.00, and explains why he went cost plus on the contract after signing the contract and one day prior to our arrival.

Mark

That's beyond sorry!!! How could you possibly get that far out with out somebody say'n someth'n don't look quite right?

The ground's thawed and my house is underway! And right off the bat we have a screw up. Fortunately it's still in the dirt mode so recovery will be relatively easy, but will cost a few bucks and time.

During the excavation for the footings today, the excavator's helper, and the excavator himself, read the story pole for the level in inches, failing to notice there were only ten marks per foot! I've got two steps in the footing, each 16 inches. Because of the misreading of the stick, and some unevenness in the excavation, the lower footing excavation is about 8" lower than it was supposed to be. The upper and middle excavation levels are close enough to use as it. But for the lower portion I told him I would rather add a half course of blocks than pour 8" more footing depth or have him back fill and compact.

I hope this isn't a portender of things to come! I found the error by using my own laser to double check his work.

I wonder if misreading a stick that is marked in tenths of feet as inches is the root cause of some of the other levelness problems noted in this thread.

EEEEks, how many other homes has he done with this stick?  If he has been misreading the stick, seems everything would be level, but not necessary at the correct elevation. Not sure if ya have a basement or crawl, but if you need stone for the basement area, ya could put stone in the footing to make up the 8". AAAh, 8" that's nothin' compared to some of the things above. (ha ha ha).

Bunt

 

 

His story is that his workers dropped his laser, breaking it. The stick he used with it is marked inches. He's using a rental laser and stick for my job and hadn't noticed the difference in markings.

God, I hope not! It's called stupidity.

Surveyors generally use tenths, and using inches(for them) is very rare. Most others use inches. If you do something frequently, you've got methods & standards. And, it's those 'infrequent' people that scare me.

I hate trench footings. What a lazy induced mess they too often cause.

Mac, I think your guy is making up excuses. Any decent excavator knows the difference between inches and tenths, and most excavators use tenths.

iKevin, I never thought we would disagree on anything but I personally like trench footings on frost walls my self.

Dave

You're probably right. I'd say he's a decent excavator, as a person, but when it comes to excavation he doesn't have much experience. He mostly does landscaping. I've concluded misreading between tenths and inches couldn't have caused the lowest part of the excavation to be 8" too deep. That was just plain incompetence on someone's part. He had 5 guys working for him. That probably was the real issue, working for him, not with him.

Another case that points out the value of checking references, which I didn't do. I was swayed by his friendliness and willingness to work with me, which he did.

But all in all the concrete man was pretty well pleased with what the excavator left behind for him to work with. He got about half the forms in today and they're looking good so far.