ICF and passive solar
Last Post 01 Nov 2008 05:27 PM by Birdman. 7 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
Gene DavisUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:61

--
17 Aug 2008 11:41 AM
I know that this may be better addressed in the other forum that deals with passive solar, but I was wondering about something that relates to both ICF building and passive solar.

Is anyone aware of successful building practices that marry the two technologies?

I have a neighbor building a new house across town that is per the design and spec of a guy who operates under the banner "Adirondack Alternative Energy."  He has developed an allegedly successful system design that has been executed per his plans and oversight over 340 times over thirty years.

I will try to describe the system as succinctly as possible.  Site the house with a long wall facing south.  Leave adjacent terrain open and free of trees for a minimum of 100 feet to south, east, and west.  Few windows in north elevation, some in E and W, and plenty, including skylights, go in S wall and roofs.

Under the lower level preferably a walkout basement, goes 12 inches of compacted gravel on undisturbed soil.  Drain this with good perimeter drain lines.  Then, in sequence, goes a layer of #30 felt, a membrane equivalent to a swimming pool liner, two layers of 2" foilfaced Thermax foam, then a 2" rat slab.  Atop this goes a web of ducting, which then gets encased in a 12" thick slab of concrete.  The house is built atop this, with the edge of the slab mass being the "footing."

A central stack somewhere in the middle 1/3 of the plan sits atop the mainline header of the duct spiderweb that got built into the slab mass below the basement.  That stack, which contains a low speed fan plus some other things that might be used to provide supplemental heat, functions as the "return air" stack for the house system.

The key to heat retention is the two layers of 2" foilfaced Thermax, with outer membrane, which began as a layer under the slab mass under the basement, then continues up the sides cladding the treated wood foundation, then goes up on the outside of the exterior walls, through the overhanging rafters, and connects to the layer that goes atop the planked roof deck.  The building has a well-detailed membrane-wrapped foam layer on all its six sides.

Supplemental heat is delivered in the deepest cold parts of the Adirondack winter by means of one or a combination of the following, all incorporated into that central stack:  a wood or coal or pellet or gas stove, coils with HW from the oversized water heater, or coils from a ground source heat pump.

What I am wondering is whether all the stuff done with the walls could be substituted with ICF walls and proper detailing.

Two pics are attached, one showing the ducting mostly in place prior to slab mass being poured, and the other shows a typical house with a diagram showing the heatflow concept.

Attachment: IMG_6345.JPG
Attachment: hm-page-new.gif

cwarmanUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:21

--
31 Oct 2008 12:23 PM
Im curious about this as well....


slenzenUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:434

--
31 Oct 2008 01:28 PM
I wonder about the air quality of these type systems or does this operate on some type of air exchange system?


wesUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:810

--
31 Oct 2008 08:12 PM
The system looks like a knockoff of the Legolett underslab heating system. But with a lot of added bells and whistles. This type of system works, quite well apparently. I have no personal experience with it myself.
Bill Chaleff, a SIPS architect whose writings appear on this site, has developed a similar, simpler system that he has used successfully. Check out his article.


Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
cwarmanUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:21

--
31 Oct 2008 09:41 PM
Wes, im new to this site, but ive spent the last hour looking around for bills article and cant seem to find it. Can someone point me in the right direction, im very interested. Thanks


wesUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:810

--
01 Nov 2008 07:20 AM
Sorry cwarman and Gene,
I don't know what happened, but I can't find them either. I have sent a message to the admin. asking about them. Hope they come back. Best source of info about SIPS construction I've ever seen.


Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
ManfredUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:200

--
01 Nov 2008 05:26 PM
The pics look like the area underneath the house is being used for an "energy storage/distribution system". A clever idea that, with proper thinking in terms of thermal dynamics and its regulation, can be improved upon.


Manfred Knobel<br>Moss Pointe Builders, Inc.
BirdmanUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:179

--
01 Nov 2008 05:27 PM
I'm with Slenzen. The ait coming out of those ducts might be warm but in 20 years it may be filthy too. Also, I would not use polyiso foam below grade as moisture will greatly degrade it's effectiveness - stick with extruded poly styrene (styrofoam) and go thicker if needed.


You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: formsup New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 1 User Count Overall: 34698
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 36 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 36
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement