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need help with leaky house
Last Post 01 Apr 2009 06:28 PM by dwangle. 13 Replies.
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tstarnes
 New Member
 Posts:3
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| 25 Nov 2008 04:09 PM |
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Our ICF house leaks water under every exterior wall. We noticed the problem during a rain storm 3months ago, about a year after our house was built. The leaking is so bad, we can aim a simple garden sprinkler at a wall with no windows and within 12min water is leaking into the house. When we notified the builder, he caulked around the windows and filled in a couple of cracks in the stucco, but our house still leaks the same. The builder last told us he didn't know where the leaks were comming from and now wont return our calls. We've called the few icf builders in our town for estimates on repairing our home or suggestions on how to fix it, but after looking at our house they say they are unable to help right now. I know there are several places on each wall where a 9" blade can be slid all the way under the wall, like the wall is not attatched to floor. My husband and I were thinking maybe that's why the water is comming in. We are also considering removing about 18 inches of stucco and foam from the outside of the house and filling it in with concrete. Our thoughts are if it's sealed the water can't get in, but we're not sure if that's why our house is leaking. could it possibly be comming from above windows where they had to use wood? I'm attatching a photo of our home before the stucco was applied. the stucco was applied directly over the foam and only wire was used over the wood. please any advise will be greatly appreciated. I am so ready to just walk away from dream home turned nightmare. € |
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Alton
 Advanced Member
 Posts:664
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| 25 Nov 2008 05:55 PM |
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Are any of the ICF walls below grade (basement)? Did the builder use flashing or house wrap over the transition between the wood and ICF walls? Have any of the ICF walls been probed for air pockets? What else can you tell us about how this home was built? |
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Alton C. Keown Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant Auburn, Alabama E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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tstarnes
 New Member
 Posts:3
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| 25 Nov 2008 07:06 PM |
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I'm not sure if he used flashing, but I know there there was nothing put on the wood. when the people stuccoed it they just stapled a wire mesh over the wood . I know that a vibrator was not used when they poured the walls. when we asked the builder he said he didn't use one because it would bust the walls out. There is no basement. foam blocks set on monothlic slab well above water level. How do I probe the walls for air pockets? stucco was applied directly over foam and wood. We live in south Florida. not many builders around here are familiar with this type of house. the foam blocks are from reward wall systems. the house was painted with acrylic paint. we had a stucco guy check out the stucco. He said the right kind was used and he checked the flashings on the eves of the roof. the stucco extends down six inches in the ground. he said maybe it should be cut back to slab level. |
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tstarnes
 New Member
 Posts:3
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| 25 Nov 2008 07:32 PM |
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also, a few days before they poured the concrete I saw alot of sand and debri between the foam walls. I asked the builder if he was going to clean that out before the concrete was poured. He said they would, but if they didn't and the cement was poured on top of that couldn't that be the problem? When ever it rains, the frame around 2 of my exterior doors swell up and the doors wont open or close until they dry out. |
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Alton
 Advanced Member
 Posts:664
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| 25 Nov 2008 09:04 PM |
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I do not believe that the problems with the doors and walls are related. The problem with the sticking doors is probably caused by the frame and doors not being sealed against water intrusion, that is, water is being absorbed by the wood. Check to see if the edges, top and bottom of the door have been painted well enough. If not, then catch the doors when they are quite dry and then paint another coat over the missed edges.
When you slid the 9" blade under the wall, I assume it was from the inside between the wall and floor. If so, then sand or something kept the ICF wall from bonding to the slab.
Since you are living in the house now, I assume that the sheetrock is up and finish. If so, then it would cause damage to probe the walls.
Here is a suggestion to find the area of the leak: Use the same approach that you would use to find a leak in a roof. Select an area where you have seen leaks before. Then start spraying water on the outside of the wall at floor level. (It is critical that you start low and work your way up since water will run down the wall.) Have someone inside to watch for leaks. After twelve minutes or so with no leaks, then move on up the wall. Repeat procedure all the way up the wall until the leak appears. If the leak is at the floor level then you should be able to prove it fairly quickly. Just to be sure, repeat procedure in other areas to verify location of leaks.
My guess is that the leak is between the floor and wall and not caused by voids in the concrete. If so, then the repair should not be too difficult to do. If the leak is caused by voids in the concrete, then I think it will be more difficult to repair.
After the location of the leak has been verified, then we can talk about solutions. |
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Alton C. Keown Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant Auburn, Alabama E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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Ian S. Giesler
 New Member
 Posts:12
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| 17 Dec 2008 09:10 PM |
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The ICF nor concrete in itself is "waterproof". You should rely on the finish to resist water from penetrating the wall surface. With the limited information and research that you have described, I would suggest:
The water is penetrating the stucco finish, either directly through the finish or through the detailing (or lack thereof) around openings and at the bottom of the wall. Once the water is behind the finish, it can migrate directly across the wall in many potential ways. More than likely, it is moving down the wall, hitting your slab and at that point, your slab probably slopes inward toward the living area....the water runs through the cold joint of the wall/slab and into the house. Unless the coldjoint was specifically specified to be waterproof with a waterstop or such, it no doubt is not, especially since you are above grade (not a basement wall).
There are solutions to your situation, but to hope people on this site can diagnose and propose solutions that will work 100% (99% might as well be "0%") is not realistic. There are many stucco "experts" that are familiar with ICF that can view your project and make sound corrective recommendations.
Some plausible measures to stop the water intrusion that may be required on your house are:
Reapply the existing product to manufacturer's specifications or Overcoat the stucco with an elastomeric or other water resistive paint/finish material.
Provide proper detailing around openings where finsh material and window/door/penetration frames must be able to withstand dissimilar expansion and contraction yet maintain water barrier.
Provide a "decorative trim" shield at the base of the wall/slab juncture to deflect water from coming in contact with the cold joint.
Ian |
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insuldeckflorida
 New Member
 Posts:46
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| 18 Dec 2008 09:11 AM |
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i'll be glad to look at your house and see if i can spot the problem. i have distributed/built with icf's for 15+ years and i live in an icf house with concrete roofs without any overhangs, and some surface cracks in the slabs and in the cementicious stucco... no leaks, caulked and painted...... i'm in jensen beach... peter 772 225 5404 772 201 6100 icsincflorida@aol.com insuldeckflorida@aol.com |
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Manfred
 Basic Member
 Posts:200
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| 18 Dec 2008 11:34 PM |
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I would think the leak could be detected easily with a moisture tester. Talk with an independant building inspector, you know the ones you see on HGTV, and have him/her come out after a rain and put the test to it. Once you know where the leak is, you feel better, because then you can go ahead and take steps to fix it. |
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Manfred Knobel Moss Pointe Builders, Inc. |
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VMG
 New Member
 Posts:31
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| 19 Dec 2008 12:08 AM |
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You should not have to go thru this.
I would suggest you contact the state office, and file a complaint. Make a paper trail, register letters,email,etc. If the builder still ignores you, he shouldn't be licensed. You should not have to pay for this, and be reimbursed for your trouble. The builder is liable. I hope this helps.
Vic |
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Bruce Frey
 Basic Member
 Posts:338
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| 19 Dec 2008 10:15 AM |
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Posted By tstarnes on 11/25/2008 4:09 PM
Our ICF house leaks water under every exterior wall. We noticed the problem during a rain storm 3months ago, about a year after our house was built. The leaking is so bad, we can aim a simple garden sprinkler at a wall with no windows and within 12min water is leaking into the house........... I know there are several places on each wall where a 9" blade can be slid all the way under the wall, like the wall is not attatched to floor. Has anything changed since the house was originally completed, such as landscaping? Were the first 9 months without leakage a dry period? Is there any chance that surface water is leaking in? The slab should be well above the surrounding soil and there should be positive drainage away from the house. Everything looks quite flat from your picture. You obviously have some workmanship problems with either voids or debris at the bottom of your ICF walls, but even with good workmanship that would not typically be a waterproof joint as Ian pointed out. 12 minutes is a very short time for an uncontrolled leak to manifest itself through a wall and I actually have some difficulty believing that a solid wall with stucco and an acrylic coating could be that bad unless there is bad window/door flashing or the exterior grade is above the slab. My suggestion is to follow Alton's water test directions and try to find the source of the leaks. Since the exterior wall/slab joint is not waterproof, you may have water traveling along the exterior wall/slab joint until it finds a low or easy spot to enter the interior. In my view, applying stucco over wood without a drainage plane is poor practice, even if it is not the source of today's problem. You have some legitimate grievances against your builder and you should start creating a good document trail with photos as you go. Keep the pressure on your builder. Good luck, Bruce |
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VMG
 New Member
 Posts:31
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| 22 Dec 2008 09:36 PM |
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As a homeowner I believe you have 18 months for a warranty. Don't give up by letting anymore time laps. Did the builder install the ICF? was a subcontractor hired for the ICF? Would you let us know who it was? Maybe some of us shouldn't hire them either. It sounds like the other posts have a good point on a fix, but the Builder should be employing one these experts to fix it.
Vic |
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Mark Ross
 New Member
 Posts:73
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| 17 Mar 2009 06:22 PM |
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The concerns may or may not include the following, however this is typical if it is not a garbage problem at the bottom of the wall and occurs quite frequently with 5" plus slumps and concrete additives such as fly ash or plasticizer. This is a good example of graveling and if you can slide a saw blade under the form, the failures will occur later. Let alone the rusting problem and steel failure.
Mark Ross
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irnivek
 Basic Member
 Posts:201
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| 18 Mar 2009 11:39 PM |
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and here i was thinking gyration factor had something to do with me on the dance floor.
phew, thanks Mark. |
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dwangle
 New Member
 Posts:54
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| 01 Apr 2009 06:28 PM |
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Posted By Bruce Frey on 12/19/2008 10:15 AM
Has anything changed since the house was originally completed, such as landscaping? Were the first 9 months without leakage a dry period?
Is there any chance that surface water is leaking in? The slab should be well above the surrounding soil and there should be positive drainage away from the house. Everything looks quite flat from your picture.
I just talked to a builder here who had a customer with a water problem. (Granted it was stick framed) He said he instantly found the problem-mulch piled up a against the house above the foundation. Is this something that could be happening at your house? Just curious.
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