Guys,

Another question...we have a balcony planned to the front of the house.  My plan is to embed anchor bolts prior to the pour (with using that Windlock plastic cup), the mason puts a brick veneer on the wall and around the AB, the ledger then gets bolted to the brick wall.  Seems reasonable?  Flashing would be from the brick down to the surface of the balcony subfloor.  The balcony would then be built like a basic deck with the ledger, front ledger, posts and joists.

Thanks

Sounds reasonable. Be sure the flashing comes out over the top of the balcony roofing.

Make sure you have an engineer sign off. Your ledger board is being held by bolts that are extending roughly 7" unsupported from the concrete (2 3/8" foam, 1" air gap, 3 5/8" brick width). Normal bending/shear strength numbers used for determining bolt size, pattern and embed depth assumes the ledger is against the supporting concrete not 7" out so the bolt size/spacing/embed depth needs to take this into account. Also because of the air gap the brick wall itself will need to resist any lateral forces toward the wall.

I'm not saying not to do it or that it won't work fine - just make sure you take into account the impact of the unsupported 7" bolt length.

Greg,

Agreed...so how would you attach a ledger to an ICF, brick veneered wall?

The IntegreSpec ICF engineering manual (available on the web here: http://www.integraspec.com/pdf/engineeringmanual.pdf ) shows a wall / brick support angle detail (fig. 15, pg 45 of the pdf link) supported by 1/2" x 8" anchor bolts with 3/16" W x 2-5/8" L x 3" Deep bottom plates welded to the anchor bolts. These plates transfer the load across the foam to the concrete and prevent bending of the anchor bolts.

I'm planning on doing something similar for my deck ledger board over brick veneer, except I will be using 5/8" x 12" anchor bolts with 1/4" x 3" x 6.5" L (to span the 2.5" foam, 1" air gap, and 3" brick) steel plates welded to the bottom edge of the anchor bolts and set 16" OC prior to pouring the walls.

Arkie,

So I if understand you correctly, you want your L steel to support BOTH the brick veneer and the ledger itself? If indeed the torque effects on AB's are to be avoided and if the brick veneer cannot tolerate any vertical loads upon itself (other than brick) how about the Ferro system into the foam, L for the brick support and the AB's with ledger directly to the foam (like an internal floor support) just below the angle?

http://www.ferocorp.com/pages/fast/fast.htm

No, in my case the anchor bolts will not be supporting the brick veneer. I just referenced that IntegraSpec figure as an example for the modified anchor bolt.

In my case, the brick veneer will be resting on the footings and the deck ledger board anchor bolts with welded plates will pass through the bricks (the anchor bolts and plates will obviously be installed first, then the brick layer will brick around them).

Arkie, we have installed anchors the exact same way. In North Carolina they don't require you to have a airgap.We also have cut out a pocket (6"x 8") in the exterior foam where the anchor will be place. We block it, and predrill a hole in the center and install the anchor before concrete placement. Once the brick is layed around the anchor bolt,it will be structurely supported .It takes a little more work to cut out the pockets,but in my opinoin its worth it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TODD / TB MACS
STACKING THE CAROLINAS ONE BLOCK AT A TIME!

Todd,

This is exactly what I was thinking...how about the Wind-Lock tunnels instead of wood block outs prior to the pour?  We may have a 1/2-1" air gap, I am not sure.  I am still not sure how the steel L figures in the ledger connection if the foam is blocked out.  The question is can the brick veneer structurally support the AB?

http://www.wind-lock.com/DSN/wwwwindlockcom/Content/PDF/2008-WindlockCatalog.pdf#page=16

The Windlock Anchor Tunnels work fine...when used as designed. They are not designed for an extra 4" projection of a 1/2" AB, which is what the tunnels are for. I have drilled them out for larger ABs, but the concern of an extra 4" projection is problematic.

The brick veneer cannot handle a deck ledger, period. Although the brick can handle great loads vertically, it's lateral capacity is pretty poor. I suggest you set up your deck as a freestanding entity, and let the brick carry thru. At this point, you could place 6x6 pt posts onto your footing and bring it to the deck hgt. However, it is also not a good idea to place the veneer onto the footings below grade; you'll be better off using 4" block, maybe solid(discuss w/mason) and then waterproof it accordingly.

Much of this depends on the size of the deck and your location. You could always discuss the detail with your local BO who should have some ideas!

So Jim, a 1/2" AB embedded in ICF wall with Windlock Tunnels cannot support a ledge with the mason veneering around the AB? I can see the leverage that 4" may impose. As I understand you recommended a 4" thick CMU strip just behind the ledger with veneer continuing on top of the CMU?

Thanks...Leonard

You might contact Halfen and discuss the situation with them.  They have a wide assortment of fasteners....or maybe they can develop one for your situation.

A slick way to attach balconies to ICF while maintaining the outer insulation value sounds like a worthwhile development project.

http://www.halfenusa.com/hit.html

Bruce

Another option I have considered for my deck ledger board is to weld a 1/4" x 3" or 4" plate between two 1/2" x 12" anchor bolts. The length of the plate would span the distance from the face of the concrete to the outside face of the brick. In effect, this would be like a mini steel truss - top bolt in tension, bottom bolt in compression. Little if any load would then be applied to the brick veneer. This same design could also be used for interior floor ledger boards, just a shorter version where the plate spans across the foam. These would be relatively easy to make if you have a welder and chop saw. If not, any small metal fabrication shop could easily make these, especially if you provide the anchor bolts.