icfcontractor
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 18 Jan 2009 08:47 PM |
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Has anyone heard of the new Logix Form called the XRV? It is apparently thicker to add additional R Value and it works with their KD or knock down system.
ICF Contractor |
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TB MACS
New Member
Posts:19
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| 18 Jan 2009 09:53 PM |
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About 80% of our projects are LOGIX blocks. We have not installed the RXV panels or have had a need for them yet,The news release just came out on thursday.The LOGIXS RXV PANELS are avaible in thickness of 4,5,6,7,and 8 inches and can be used to build walls with concrete cores of 4,6.25,8,10 and 12" thick. LOGIX RXV panel allows builder to do projects with higher r-values than the standard logix block(R-24).with the RXV panel you can know achieve r-values up to R-66.
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TODD/ TB MACS
STACKING THE CAROLINAS ON BLOCK AT ATIME! |
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Buntly
Basic Member
Posts:156
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| 19 Jan 2009 08:14 PM |
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I don't like the way they embed the ties,.......looks like they are using standard ties, and adding the foam to the outside. Definately going to need long screws for fastening brick ties or siding.
I am not trying to hi-jack this thread, but I believe there are now 3 companies that offer added r-value. This makes me wonder how much of an advantage the added foam really provides. From a theoretical standpoint, doubling the r value would decrease the heat loss thru the wall to 1/2. From a practical standpoint, it doesn't seem that there would be a paypack for the extra eps, unless extreme conditions were present. This sounds crazy, but wouldn't the extra eps be a bad thing in some instances? For example, in Michigan the summers get quite hot and humid. Most homes here have a full basement, below grade of course. We want the basement to be nice and cool in the summer, which could be achieved thru the earth, but since there is a larger resistance between the interior of the basement and the 55 deg earth, there would be less energy absorbed into the earth from the basement. In the winter time, the extra eps would be working to help the cause obviously. It seems to me, in most cases the extra eps would be more beneficial above grade. I guess no one will really ever know the benefit unless two identical houses were built side by side the the different configurations and real data is recorded. I guess we'll have to wait and see how many people start couging up extra $$ for these thicker forms. It will be interesting to see how many other companies introduce thicker panels in the near future.
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smartwall
Basic Member
Posts:169
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| 20 Jan 2009 08:16 AM |
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You do not double your savings by doubling your insulation. Once you get past the mid 20's in r-value your the law of diminishing returns is in full swing. Get above r-32 and you start throwing money out the door faster than you are saving it. An r-66 wall would be stupid. |
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PanelCrafters
Advanced Member
Posts:666
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| 20 Jan 2009 10:25 AM |
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Posted By smartwall on 01/20/2009 8:16 AM
You do not double your savings by doubling your insulation. Once you get past the mid 20's in r-value your the law of diminishing returns is in full swing. Get above r-32 and you start throwing money out the door faster than you are saving it. An r-66 wall would be stupid. Opinions vary on that. Ever heard of Super Insulating? Also, the Law of Diminishing Returns is based on stable energy prices. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
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....jc
If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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richntiff
Basic Member
Posts:108
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| 20 Jan 2009 12:38 PM |
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Hmm, throwing money out the window? Yep - superinsulating, PassivHaus techniques, etc. Definitely NOT throwing money out the window. Do some research. The best new way to build is superinsulation - no matter how you achieve it. The number one priority in building a house shell in my climate (northern WI - over 9000 degree heating days) should be building a superinsulated, airtight shell. SIP can do this, and thicker EPS ICF can apparently now do it. Finding out that ICF companies offer thicker eps has instantly re-newed my interest in an all ICF home. I'm working with TF systems right now on quotes - man, that's an impressive company. |
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tdbuilder
New Member
Posts:67
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| 20 Jan 2009 04:04 PM |
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richntiff
I agree with you 100% TF has been using thicker poly for years. I wonder why it is that they seem to get so little love on the board. I still use block on buildings that the owner wants them but when I have the choice its TF every time for speed, labor saving, ease, not a lot of bracing, unlimited possibilities to follow any design.
But to the actual thread. That is great that Logix now has the option. |
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Paul Stevens
Basic Member
Posts:185
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| 20 Jan 2009 06:37 PM |
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tdbuilder, this is a little off topic, but I just checked out the TF website and watched the video of the house being built with a crane and pre built panels and I wondered how they got the corner bar in at every 16-18 inches, or any bar for that matter??
Paul Stevens |
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tdbuilder
New Member
Posts:67
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| 21 Jan 2009 08:19 AM |
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Paul,
Good question, I never panelized walls with it. I have panelized a couple of gables with it but that was easy to side the gables in from the sides. My thoughts were its just as easy to assemble on site. I am going to start a thread on this so I can find out what other have experienced with it. |
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Farmboy
Basic Member
Posts:275
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| 23 Jan 2009 01:42 AM |
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Eyeballed the thicker Logix blocks (it looked like 4" each panel for this block) at the Int'l Home Builder's SHow in Vegas yesterday. It made me feel warm just looking at it. Didn't get a cost or determine fastening or bracing issues, just wanted to see it. |
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lambabbey
Basic Member
Posts:122
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| 11 May 2009 01:29 AM |
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I'm going to be using Logic XRV blocks for a new home construction, specifically the R-36 blocks that have 6" of EPS on the outside, 2-3/4" on the inside and an 8" concrete core. I love that Logix is making these. My only concern is the transitional block to be used connecting the standard Logix blocks below grade with the XRVs that are above ground. I believe using the brick ledge block as the transitional block will work fine, but I do hate being the guinea pig here. Any ideas whether I might be up against some headaches?
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John A Gasbarre
Lamb Abbey Orchards
Union, ME 04862
orchard@lambabbey.com
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icfcontractor
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 13 May 2009 09:22 PM |
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lambabbey,
Your transition from the 8" basement to the XRV panel is a good transition using the brickledge.
A few notes of caution though. The brickledge is notorious for being the source of water infiltration issues and the way you will be using it can cause major issues in the future if you do not take care to properly address the transition from 8 BL to 6 XRV. I would build and pour my wall to an above grade elevation on the first pour. This will eliminate the cold joint below grade, then I would rasp the brickledge down even to the XRV panel before you waterproof. I would also probably go to a local sheet metal shop and have them bend me a custom flashing to flash the joint between the 8 BL and the 6 XRV and have this inside my form before the pour and pour it in place. I would also look at a waterproofing agent in your concrete and look at using a drain board type membane on the outside to allow any water that my infiltrate the foam a way to go to the outside instead of the inside.
You could also pour the 8" wall first, flash it, then build and pour your 6" XRV wall but I feel you will not be able to control your flashing as easily.
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Alton
Advanced Member
Posts:663
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| 13 May 2009 10:03 PM |
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Sorry to butt in, but would this be a problem of transition with most brands of blocks or just Logix? |
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
E-mail: alton at auburn dot edu |
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lambabbey
Basic Member
Posts:122
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| 13 May 2009 11:16 PM |
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ICF Contractor:
That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Thanks so much. I'll pass it onto the builder and make sure these issues are addressed. Thanks.
John
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John A Gasbarre
Lamb Abbey Orchards
Union, ME 04862
orchard@lambabbey.com
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icfcontractor
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 14 May 2009 07:16 AM |
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Alton,
This is a potential problem with every brand that has a brickledge. In my opinion there are two types of unflashed brickledge, those that leak and those that are going to leak. I build in a very wet part of the country, this may not be an issue in a desert.
If you look up on this site leaks or water intrusion issues, you will find some very good discourse on brickledge and the need to flash it.
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smartwall
Basic Member
Posts:169
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| 14 May 2009 03:49 PM |
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Let me do some math. 8" Logix block= 2.75"+8"+2.75"= 13.5". Logix 6" XRV =14.75". Your going to the trouble of waterproofing a brickledge because the wall overhangs the basement wall by 1.25". I don't see where this is a problem. Whatever siding is installed will hide it, because this is where the siding would start anyways. |
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lambabbey
Basic Member
Posts:122
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| 14 May 2009 07:42 PM |
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Smartwall:
You've made an assumption about the block system I'm using that's incorrect. The XRV blocks I'll be using will have the same 8" core as the standard 8" blocks being used below grade, therefore:
8" Logix block (basement) = 2.75" + 8" + 2.75" = 13.5" (+ 1/2" sheetrock) --> 14" total wall thickness below grade
Logix 6" XRV (above grade) = 6" + 8" + 2.75" = 16.75" (+ 1/4" stucco [out] + 1/2" sheetrock + 1/4" stucco [in]) --> 17-3/4" total wall thickness above grade (~ R-38)
Using Logix's brickledge transitional block, which transitions from 13.5" to 17.375", I'll have a lip protruding from the brick ledge of 5/8" below the subsequent courses of Logix 6" XRV blocks above it. The challenge here is that there will only be 1/8" of foam on the upper blocks that extends over the concrete in the transitional brick ledge block beneath it. Some kind of flashing may be in order before the external lime-based stucco is applied.
Hope this helps clarify things.
John
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John A Gasbarre
Lamb Abbey Orchards
Union, ME 04862
orchard@lambabbey.com
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Buntly
Basic Member
Posts:156
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| 14 May 2009 07:49 PM |
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How are you dealing with your windows above grade?
Bunt |
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lambabbey
Basic Member
Posts:122
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| 14 May 2009 08:20 PM |
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Bunt:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by dealing, whether you're referring to the kind of windows being used or how they'll be installed.
All windows above grade will be Unilux UltraTherm 0.7 Low-E Triple-Glaze with Krypton Gas. They'll all be recessed about 4" from the outside into the window openings, allowing for around a 12" window ledge on the interior. I'm guessing we'll use some kind of strap hinge.
John
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John A Gasbarre
Lamb Abbey Orchards
Union, ME 04862
orchard@lambabbey.com
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Buntly
Basic Member
Posts:156
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| 15 May 2009 06:03 AM |
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I was just curious as to how you were going to do your bucks. Plywood? I would be concerned if your windows were cantilevered out over the 4" of foam, but your holding your windows in.
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