Trying to figure out how to properly flash my windows ( nailing fin on a flush 2X12 buck ) and i am scratching my head alot aren't you guys afraid about water getting behind the EPS , on the concrete ...freezing or leaking from there? could also get under the EPS, on the ties, inside the walls ... and what about water that gets in the ties while they shrink during cold days, and then freeze within the concrete? will the use of tyvek ALL AROUND the house seriously reduce risks of water dommage? ( long term ) I see everywhere the "proper" way to flash windows and doors ... but i don't understand how that can apply to ICF walls ... and what about the bottom of door and windows ? do you guys flash it up ? or down/away ??? newya i am feeling a bit unsecure about ICF and water ...here we get down to -35/40c during winter and there are a lot of freeze/thaw periods during later winter,spring and automn

I can speak for how things are done in California.

Regardless of ICC #'s and acceptance, out here we are still required to install some form of building paper on the exterior of the building before finishes are installed, the paper can be Tyvek/Typar, GreenGuard or even felt paper something must be on the wall.

As for flashing windows, it's done the same as framed with peel and stick, that's for flush mount windows. Now if the window is recessed into the wall we have metal pans made up for the bottom only and they extend 6-8" up the sides.

All doors are metal pan flashed on the bottom.

Chris,
   I have learned a lot from your posts and for that I thank you. This is the first time I have read that house wrap is used over the ICF form. This makes a lot of sense to me. I can only speak about my experience with the polysteel forms and they have slight vertical indentations showing the locations of the imbedded studs. The indentations seem like a weak point for water intrusion under window door flashing tape. I have also having trouble accepting that the tape will waterproof the window/door openings.
Also where the horizontal and verticle joints in the blocks are seem the most obvious weak point. Water can easily migrate behind the nail flanges.
Could you provide more detail on the use of house wrap or do you know of a topic on the forum discussing this?
     I am not a builder but do repairs/remodel for a living. This experience is what makes me such a huge critic of flashing tape and the need for redundent waterproof systems.
Just so you do not think I am an old dog who cannot learn new tricks I once made my living constructing high tech dust free labs (Intel/IBM) and am used to working with new wall systems or making mismatched components go together.

Guys,
Don't overthink the issue. ICFs are far more waterproof than typical framed walls, and there are no worries about rotting wood should moisture manage to get in. The same basic priniciples of flashing, building paper installation, and finish application apply to ICFs just as it does to any type of wall construction. For this particular subject, the type of wall construction is not that important.  The bottom line is keep the water away from the walls.

I did not say I agree with California's theories...

ICF in general is a water resistant product (not waterproof), the water permability is minimal on ICF, there is no rot factor, water as we all know takes the path of least resistance.

The only way water is going to get to the ICF surface after a wall finish is applied is if it is given a place to get in, namely around window and door openings.

One thing that still to this day that I see in California is caulking issues. Everyone here installs the trims or finished product as tight to an opening as possible. If and when they caulk the minor amount is applied sparingly to the surface only. Well, in my opinion that is not enough, it doesn't last, water gets through and voila, rot, mold, some form of water intrusion. All trim/finish product should be left back at least 1/4" from the opening, then a liberal amount of caulking should be applied and tooled into the joint giving a much better seal (plus it will last longer).

The object is to stop the water before it gets behind the finished wall material. Ever install a shower door? Notice you caulk the inside where no one sees it? That's because the water is on the inside of the shower, if it gets behind the frame...rot begins.

For our shell erect work, we will install windows and then use brush on products like aquaseal, ecoflex, rubrwall etc. instead of peel and stick window wrap. This covers the foam indentations as mentioned above, any damage that might be around a buck, and the buck and window flange together. Use a 4 inch roller with heavy nap. Since doing this, we haven't had any moisture entering during the construction phase. We encourage those installing vinyl siding to do all "trim" areas above grade as well.

I'm not sure about the brush on waterproofing below grade alone, but we use it a lot to accent details and other waterproofing products. The stuff is nuclear, have gone to a couple meetings with black fingernails...

Kevin

oh yeah we do two coats, the same day, on windows. All windows/doors flashed for about $20.00 material.

We cut a 15deg down angle into the icf above openings, then we install the flashing with a caulk or structural adhesive for foam to hold that in place, the next step is a peel - n - stick over this, covering 2/3 of the extended flashing. Then apply the cover material ie: stucco, siding, or what ever the client requires.

Depending on the desired cosmetics of the home the window or door can be set in or out in the buck opening, this has to be thought out ahead of time to allow for buck dimensions, and possible additional frameing too mount the product in the buck. When you reduce the extension area on the inside by recessing the product you will leave a larger area on the outside that will require a pan system on the horizontal plain to allow for drainage of any water on the sill.

There are several advantages to recessing the window and door openings, This method will reduce or eliminate the expense of extension jams, it will also reduce the amount of time that the hot sunlight is beaming through the window, and if you are ever attached it will reduce the available penitration area of the item being shot at you, but lets hope that it never comes to that.

irnivek: could you please point directly to specific products?
i guess they are "foam" compatible??

i have a lot of EDPM brush on membrane paint leftover from another job ..do you guys believe it could be used on our EPS foam ?
would it make a good "seal" around the windows?
could extend that way beyond any tapes ...

Chris: nice description about Califormia's ...
but here in the "very" cold region ... if water gets in the wall..by the ties ..and freeze there
repeat that indefenitly

i understand that properly flashed, and with the use of homewrap ..there is not much chance
of rain water gettin in the outside portion of the walls ..but we can't stop it all

Not just in California, Chris!  Caulking and sealing (the kind to keep out water, not "wide paint") is usually poorly done in residential construction....even commercial "pros" have their problems.

A proper caulk joint will have two-sided adhesion to let the sealant compress and stretch and must be wide enough to accomodate the anticipated movement and the sealant.  For commercial silicon products, this means a joint width of approximately anticipated movement x 2, with usually 1/4" minimum.

The depth of the applied sealant must be proportional to the width of the joint (usually about 1/2 the width).  Controlling the depth of the joint usually requires a backer rod.  If the sealant is too thick, it cannot properly stretch and the joint will fail.  An open cell backer rod is generally favored to eliminate bubbling.

It goes without saying that the joint needs to be clean and the joint should always be tooled to promote sealant adhesion.

Fillet joints, joints with three sided adhesion, joints that are too narrow or too wide and joints with too much or too little sealant WILL fail.  99.99% of sealant failures are from poor installation.

Bruce