What are your thoughts on this subject vs rebar, will it float.

I know nothing on how it performs, and it doesn't matter because International code does not include it and the engineers do not specify it. Rebar is used more in stressed areas such as openings, can't do that with steel fibers.

But it would be nice if sometimes we could skip rebar, but for the most part we don't have a problem with rebar.

Look back a 1/2 dozen or so pages, think we covered this last year.

Some engineers were accepting it, pending the area, others (me) not getting any credit in a wall for it.

This may be a bit off topic because it is monolithic domes and not ICF, also it may be a different type of steel fiber that he is talking about, but this guy is not in favor of it.

http://static.monolithic.com/pres/steel_fibers/index.html

Here's the latest thread on helix.......


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Try Truman P Young and Associates out of Cincinnati, excellent ICF engineers, and they work with helix, licensed in many states, cut my costs down by about a buck a square foot.

Mark Ross

I guess not a lot of opinion on steel fiber in ICF.

ok, I'll take a stab at it. Steel fibers are a construction material that will improve formed concrete works. There are several companies out there pitching their products. Steel fibers are still not used enough in the industry, so for a custom home it still reaches the term "cost-prohibitive", while in a school project or a church it makes perfect sense. The product is more expensive than rebar, but you will save on the labor portion, something that is not really tangeable in a straight forward custom house build.

Advantages of steel fibers are: since the fibers are mixed in the concrete, the concrete placement is a dream. Steel fiber does, as of now, not elimininate lintel rebar or special opening rebar. It also does not address point loads where more rebar is required.

On a big project steel fiber makes perfect sense! Someday prices will be down to give rebar a run for it.

Manfred:

What we found is to use less steel fiber and some reinforcing steel.  We only use enough to get rid of crack control steel, which keeps the costs down.  To completely replace the steel, is a prohibitive cost, and I personally don't agree it can do it properly.

I can tell you one thing, cover your eyes!!! They tend to REALLY bounce around when pumped. They seem to flow real well in the forms. I had some leftover from a project so I gave them a shot. For any structural stuff, I'd be skeptical. For shrinkage control, sure why not. There are plastic products that serve the same purpose, regular poly fibers in the right amount might work also. 

Interesting comment about the bouncing around. Although we dont see it, I am curious at to what you think may cause it.  I can only visualize a slump consideration, however possibly a placement technique that may differ, however I really want to know, so I don't do it.

We use a 4" slump, standard mix, no fly ash or additives, 3/4" stone.

We place by using a short horizontal discharge line which allows it to slow down greatly and drop into the forms from the top of the wall, without excess speed from a vertical hose section, and no reducer.

Do you mind if I ask how you place and pour, and what you place and pour, maybe this is a product that has one of those funky things that happens under certain conditions, and would really be important to know.

Thanking in advance.

Yeah, we didn't use an s-bend, just a reducer. When we got near the top, and the hose was out the forms it would 'spit' a bit and they would bounce around , not real bad. You should have saftey glasses on anyways, concrete in the eyes is no fun. We used a Dramix product, I think they are all similar. Our slump was 6-7 in.

 

Fact of the matter is that polyolefin is stronger pound per pound than steel. Is non-corrosive. Is cheaper. Pumps better and does not rebound.
Bone Shaped fibers are--to my knowledge- still the only fiber which has proven a rising ARS (stregth actually rises after initial crack)
I have used steel and have some I would give away. As far as use in the field issues go there is no comparison in my experience.
Basalt fiber is four times stronger than steel and five times lighter--for those situations where weight is important.

We are looking at a cost savings on our footing / slab pour with Helix, but will be more expensive that installing rebar in the walls.

The fun part is trying to convince the readymix and local inspectors that these little spun steel fibers are that much stronger than plastic ones, and can be used for more than just crack control.

Do the ready-mix companies stock the Helix fibers?  I wonder why they would care if someone used steel fibers as long as they are not responsible.  I have had difficulty in getting the ready-mix companies to add color to a mix.  They were afraid that the next load to another customer would have traces of color. 

JBA & Mark.........why such a difference in your slump? Size of wall?

Old topic that is in this forum, and most dont agree with me on it, rather not bring it up, it opens up a whole new can of worms