It still sounds like there is a lot of wood, bracing and reinforcing going on form work.  We have been using a new method we call the "build Through Method" which allows us to use the form we are working with, as a fully self supporting form, with no concerns for openings or odd shapes, and eliminates the need for any complicated bracing.

Probably the best part of this is a reduction of all bracing work, less wall alignment needs, standardized construction which is simpler, and most of all, absolutely perfect wall lines, measurements, plumb and level of all corners, tee walls, openings and wall tops.  No compression issues and all measurements are perfect.  We are now getting within 1/8" on all dimensions and plane, with less time on the project, no need for lumber to be hauled around, or installed, no plumbing straps or corner bracing.

We cut 36% of the cost of construction out of this project, with an increased profitability of close to 44% against competitive pricing.

There should be ways for every form to be able to do this, however this is the form we are using, so I would rather not discuss which it is.

I hope this helps provide ideas for installers.

Mark Ross

Looks like a nice job. What are the connector plates imbeded in the wall.

Don't tease us, tell us more.

And what kind of truss straps are those.

Tom Boardman can probably answer the truss connector questions, they were new to me, however really nice to use, and designed so that you seat the bearing directly on the plate, which means you don't have to be exactly right for top of concrete finishing, the seat can be raised up to 3/4" above the concrete and still meet the loading as per the manufacturers design.  It is not Simpson, however another certified product.

Tom Please answer the brand and name of the truss connector if you have it.

Mark Ross

Got one in the shed.  If it doesn't float away overnight I will try to find it and will post the brand in the AM.

Here are two pictures showing the openings being "opened".  Hope this helps make the process a little more clear.  All the removed pieces are reused either on a future pour on the same job or carried over to the next job. 

Two quick questions.
1) Are those foam end cap pieces used to form the sides of your openings?
2) How do you get the concrete consolidated under your window openings?
Otherwise, this looks like one of the neatest ideas I've ever seen for ICFs.

Yes they are end cap pieces that fit in the form we use.

The window sills are poured at a later date, with another pour, in single level homes, this can be done right out of a chute.  As window sills are 99% non structural, a cold joint at the side jambs below the window is irrelevant.  We simply design all windows as doors and fill in underneath with less rebar and concrete, based on a parapet wall design.

It really cuts down the time on complicated jobs.  This project had 44 tee walls and 52 openings.  It was a commercial 20 stall polo pony barn with 2 apartments.  actually over 200' long in total.

The connector is made by USP Connectors.  I can't read the no. but if you Google usp connectors you will find a place to order a catalog.

Mark:

Congrats on a plumb(er) install. Looks nice. I would be interested in your overall cost per sq. ft. of wall over the inuendo of "36 percent savings" My amish neighbour is currently "saving" time by calling a taxi, but I can still get to town first....


In the past we have also built with your "new" method, and while it may have it's place, I would think it not feasible for most builds, like:
1/multistory, where the forms we use don't need exterior access or shoring, including T's
2/the forms we use, where formloc, strapping, zip ties, plumbers tape is not an issue
3/compression is the same whether you build through or not
4/still can't find a use for the overall proactivity of the foam buck. It seems to only reward the ICF installer, and ICF foam buck salesman, while leaving the window, door, drywall, trim, sider in the lurch, each prospectively cursing ICF, (while systematically hitting the "times 2" button on their calculator while doing bids for an ICF job)
5/I expect to see a picture of you cleaning the bottom of the wall cavity of foam beads to inhibit gyration factor and gravelling

Nice pilasters. What cladding is spec'd to stand up to the good natured ponies owners?

Kevin

What about your headers?
How do you support your headers for pour day?
What do you do if your guys are on the inside of the structure and you get a blow out on the outside, or vice versa?

The 2x12" shown in the picture is supported by the end caps and the forms as well as the ties. 
As far as blow outs go we had none on that job.  If one should occur A ladder up each side gives access. 
We were in and out of that job at a cost for labor per sq. ft. less than $2.70  That included starting form a set of footers that were poured 36" out of level end to end. 

Markross,

Why not mention brand names? One of the best things about this site is getting to the bottom of things, comparing products.

It's not a secret.  The system we used on that job was Integraspec. 

I believe it breeds creativity by other installers working with other products, and furthers the industry.  The more we all build with ICF the more projects there will be, and any way to help lower the cost, to me, is a good way to go.

Arron:

Its been a short while since weve had one actually, and none yet with this method, however most blowouts occure on the opposite side of the wall alignment system, so I am sure it will catch up to us.  We had a little pop from a missed tie, but it did not blow out, and we simply waited an hour, removed the foam, shaved the concrete back with a trowel, and replaced the foam to a perfecly level wall, sealed it in place and rasped it smooth.  We where inside the building via a ladder and climbed over the wall.

Kevin:

I would think that in multistory, stronger formwork would be kind of important, however, the project is a little "plumb (er)".  Compression is not the same in all blocks.  some have none, some have up to 1/8" per course, there are a lot of types out there, and I dont know if the blanket statement on form compression is accurate, however, I have been wrong before.

There is a lot of controversy over the costs of products, however at $2.00-$3.00 per lineal foot of buck, with appropriate internal fastening for both drywall and window (which is fully ICC rated and approved in the companies ICC)  The cost of a 2x12 PT material, is actually higher.  Combine this with the shoring requirements, and the need to fasten the ICF to the window prior to pour (particularly at windows that are on the 2nd floor or higher, and near corners), and then there is no comparison to the savings of cost. Now with the shrinking of bucks, thermal transfer and air infiltration issues (additional lineal footage of crack), which only increased window condensation and wood rot, I will take this any day.  The bucks will pay for themselves, about 1 lf per month, in heating bills on an average home. even if you paid more for it.  This method cut our opeing construction time low enough so that it is only 20% of a 10% window area home on average, as opposed to over 40% of additional time to construct.  Now add in any travel and accomodation costs and suddenly, its not much of a deal.  However, its really the installers preferance.  Then there is waste, however the math is different for everyone, based on how they do things, so these are just what we attribute it to.

Now eliminate cutting every piece, instead simply cutting the openings (like cutting sheathing over framed openings), and the time is dramatically reduced.  Furthermore, There is much less to carry to show up at a job, less screws to use and lose.

I guess that its a question of thinking it out well. 

As for cleaning the walls, there is no cutting done on the wall prior to pouring, which pretty much eliminates the need to clean, and reduces errors attributed to this.

On a side note, I know you have a real issue with what we call "graveling" however I have just seen too much to argue this point any further.  I guess this is a condition you dont believe in and feel strongly about, as I believe I never mentioned it in this thread, and rarely do anymore. 

As for the cladding, I do not know what it is, we dont install cladding. 

On a more professional note:  I left the ICFweb for a while, simply because there was so much anamosity between a lot of members, and am back with the hopes that this will continue to be a professional forum (spelling and grammer aside).  Lets start over and move forward please, you are a good installer.

Hey Mark,

The pilaster job looks familiar!

Looks like you had a seasoned crew?

OKblocker

Tim:

Only the best buddy, only the best.

There was one lad on site who ran the show, I would work with any day.  Too bad he now is mixing margarita's instead of concrete.

I helped a friend of mine build a new house in 2006 using Integraspec.  We had great luck getting straight walls.  Our dealer kind of scolded us for all the extra bracing we did.  He said we really didn't need it. We had never done this before and wanted to make sure we did it right.  They are an excellent form. 

We poured 11 foot walls for the basement in one lift and didn't have any trouble even though we had a jerk for a pump truck operator.  When he pulled up he said he hadn't found a foam form he couldn't blow.  He tried pretty hard.  He was really pushing the concrete in.  He said he couldn't run it any slower.  We asked him several times to slow it down but he wouldn't.  Luckily he didn't blow us out.  When we poured the upper level we used a different company that was highly recommended.  That guy really knew how to run his truck.  That second pour was so stress free I couldn't believe it. 

We used foam bucks around the windows and doors.

You should have gave that first pumper the boot as soon as he started acting up.