I am weighing out my options for a heating & cooling system for my ICF home. I am seriously considering a geothermal system but am struggling with cost vs. savings ratio. Here are the stats: * Location: MA * Sq.ft.: 7,000 with basement & garage * Construction: ICF by Quad-lock * Insulation: R-30 closed cell * Heating: In slab radiant loops * Windows: Marvin Integrity * Finish: Oro Coatings Stucco * Status: 75% complete The cost of drilling is outrageous here in the Northeast, so ground loops is my only choice, my question is... what is the best & most energy efficient heat pump on the market that will give me both heating and cooling; I've been told that Waterfurnace E-series heat pumps are good... what do you all think? I am also looking to save as much as possible as we've experienced costly mistakes and delays with our previous ICF builder. Thank you for your help Luftpanzer

Luftpanzer,

I my opinion if you really want to take the guess work out of the decision making process, you may want to contact Energywise Sturctures out of Texas http://www.energywisestructures.com Energywise is a group of former NASA Engineers that are experts in developing Ultra Energy Efficient Homes and ensuring that they envelop of the house is working in harmony with the HVAC. According their website they have successfully designed over 40,000 homes and commercial properties, with several positive testimonials.

For about $1000.00 they will look at your plans and the technology being used in the build. They will conduct an energy analysis and provide you with the best way to ensure optimal energy efficiency. I'm certain that they could do an energy analysis with geothermal and with a conventional HVAC. You could look at both numbers and make a calculation on rate of return.

I think that the law of diminished return will probably show that geothermal will not be the way to go, especially if drilling is extremely expensive. Working with them would take a lot of the guess work out, in my opinion of course.

Hope this helps.

renangle

As a homeowner (not a professional), it is my opinion that any of the known geothermal manufacturers give similar efficiency. The more important part about geothermal is finding a knowledgable installer. If the system is not designed correctly, you will not experience the efficiency that you expect and paid for. If it is designed correctly you will experience the comforts and efficiency which geothermal can deliver (especially if you can do horizontal loops). Some important notes: You should have a detailed Manual J calculation done on your home - not just rule of thumb calcs (I don't know if your builder already has this?) If you want geothermal to provide AC in addition to heating, there are fewer units which give both hot water heat and forced air cooling, so your choices are more limited (and you will have to install ducts). But, like renangle wrote, you will need to do an analysis yourself or have someone do it for you to find if the difference in price of gas + AC vs. geo justifies the added expense of geo.

My husband and I decided to go with geo (we are also in the northeast). One of the main reasons is to relieve ourselves from dependence on changing fuel prices (i.e. gas, oil, etc.). We still have electric to deal with, but that price does not swing as much as the others for us. And, hopefully a solar system in the future will help contend with that dependency. Our payback period is now looking like 10 years... if the price of fuel goes up, that payback period will go down. But we are planning on staying in our home much longer than that. I guess it depends on your own preferences and situation.

I REMOVED A 60.000 BTU PROPANE FURNACE AND INSTALLED A CLOSED LOOP GROUND SOURCE HEAT PUMP FOR OUR 2500 SQFT RANCH.. COST 15.000 WITH A 2500 REBATE FROM THE UTILITY COMPANY, MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE THAT CAN CAN HANDLE 100% OF YOUR HEAT LOAD IN THE WINTER. WATER FURNACE WAS CONSIDERED BUT READ THE WARRANTY COMPLAINTS ON THE WEB.... I WENT WITH ECONAR ... GOOD SYSTEM AND RUNS WELL HERE IN MISSOURI. BEST THING I EVER DID... HAVENT BOUGHT PROPANE IN THREE YEARS. WHEN I CALLED TO CHECK ON THE ECONAR SYSTEM THE MAN THAT OWNS THE COMPANY ANSWERED THE PHONE AND I SPENT ABOUT AN HOUR WITH THE ENGINEER /DESIGNER ON THE PHONE .. GREAT PEOPLE TO WORK WITH..... HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM....

hmmmmmm, I see energywise has become.......something more.  NASA?   Interesting.

Out of curiosity, how many tons of geo were you quoted in your new home. I would guess between 8 to 12, am I close? It is important to find an HVAC contractor with ICF design experience. Your heating load will dominate, and you must consider whether you plan to heat the radiant floor water with your geo and also your domestic water. Let me know and I will gladly help walk you through the process and help you locate a quality contractor in your area. We have installed over 350 geo systems in the last 9 years Dan

I would recommend giving Lyle Darnell with Energy Dynamics a call. They manufacture GeoComfort (which we are a dealer for)and Hydron Module - two very trusted names in the geothermal business. I agree that conducting a manual J is essential to getting the performance you want from your system. GeoComfort manufactures single systems that handle heating, cooling, radiant flooring, and include the de-superheater that is required to qualify for the 30% tax credit from the federal government. If you are not aware of this, the de-superheater is a component that allows the GSHP to "pre-heat" the water in your water heater. This optimizes the efficiency of your water heater, and can actually cover about 90% of your hot water costs. Bottom line is this: if you are intending to qualify for the federal government's EnergyStar 30% tax credit by installing a GSHP, the system must include a de-superheater. Good luck with your system. Chris Johnson K2 Construction Lincoln, NE

Take a look at www.arit.com They can give you some assistance in your quest for an affordable geothermal solution.

Didn't Arit go belly-up

Since you have radiant heating, you may count on achieving COF of 4. That is, getting 4 units of energy for every unit of electricity to feed into ground sourced heat pump.

Geothermal heat pump would give you more (COF ~5), but as you have figured out, cost of drilling is too expensive.