Another insulated floor form, to compete with Lite-Deck. But this one might compete better than others, it is priced right. What are the opinions out there? I would like to know what the "C" channel attachment points are, studs? And what is the patent pending "internal drainage system"?

Nobody has an opinion? I know better than that.

I think it would be nice for shipping for a small job. But I think there is a point where the labor would be so much for a medium to large job that the pre-cut length panels would be much easier and more cost effective. Does that make sense?

I don't know. I find that with ICFs there is no worth-while difference in construction time, whether you are using a 4sf, 5.33sf, 8sf, or 12sf form.

Hello,
We've been offering a competing product for years, Quad-Deck, that comes pre-cut to length and has molded in metal joists every 1ft oc.

So here's my opinion:
The shoring system for BuildDeck - as shown in their manuals with the girders - will take longer to build and cost more than the shoring needed for pre-cut ICF floor panels - in most cases commercially available (rentable) shoring every 6ft and only in one direction (see below).
Most suspended slab construction needs to have both the structure AND the shoring engineered. Many shoring rental places can provide the shoring engineering with the rental.

To allow ceiling attachment on BuildDeck, you need to add the costs for "BB supplied steel attachment channels" with extra 3.25" screws installed from below (see their Design manual).

The above could make BuildDeck's end product quite expensive compared to other systems.

Georg Kustermann

Quad-Deck Shoring for comparison:

I agree the shoring that BuildDeck details would be time consuming. However the attachment channels are simple steel studs, I am told, and it appears the extra 3.25" screws is overkill and would not be necessary to compare it to Quad-Lock (Insul-Deck) or Lite-Deck.

Why couldn't BuildDeck be supported in the same manor as Insul-Deck? Or how about with Giraffe or ReechCraft bracing?

Because the 2' x 2' BuilDeck pieces are not self-reinforced when assembled into longer 'panels' to make up the span; so every panel piece needs to be supported on each of its ends. It basically means that you need to shore BuilDeck exactly every 2 feet compared to the usual 6 feet for the self-reinforced deck systems.

I'm not aware of Giraffe or Reechcraft shoring systems - shoring is a different animal from bracing (shoring needs to hold up all the concrete weight and construction loads).

Suspended Concrete Slab construction has high risks during the pour AND after, the biggest being a collapse due to failing shoring or concrete placement mistakes (e.g. piling up the concrete in one spot, improper consolidation). Shoring removal times and re-shoring requirements are very important.

So our usual advice is:

1. Get the slab engineered - and stick to it!
2. Get the shoring engineered - required for all buildings built under IBC in the USA or Part 4 in Canada.  And stick to the engineering specs! Don't try to save on this - malfunction can cost lives.
3. Work with professionals with adequate experience in suspended slab construction

My personal advice: Show BuilDeck's DIY "shoring system" to your inspector and the experienced contractor before you plan on using it...

Georg Kustermann

BuildDeck is as "self reinforced" as any of the insulating floor forms. It takes a stud, like Lite-Deck. The usual 6' oc would work for BuildDeck too.

Both Giraffe and ReechCraft advocate using their ICF bracing for support of insulated floor forms.

I may be wrong, BuildDeck appears to have only have one stud every 24" oc.

Hello Brad,

from what I can see in the BuilDeck literature, the panels don't have any reinforcement inside them - only the (optional) "BD supplied steel attachment channels" over the 2 1/2" EPS wings. Since those channels are only  2 1/2" high, only held by the thin EPS section, and only every 2' OC, they won't reinforce the panels sufficiently to allow shoring every 6 feet. That's why they have to recommend that elaborate shoring.

In comparison, Quad-Deck has 6" high steel joists molded into the thick EPS sections every 1' OC. And each panel is cut to your exact dimensions for the entire span, allowing the shoring to be spaced much further apart.

 


The BuilDeck "shoring system" also doesn't seem to be adjustable like normal shoring systems are.

Regards,
Georg Kustermann

I don't see why the shoring would have to be done the way Build Deck detailed. Although the shoring would likely have to be closer together depending on the strength of their steel.

And to clarify for those that do not know, Quad-Deck is the same as Insul-Deck.

There is two aspects to shoring; the pounds per sf of the concrete and insulated floor form (IFF), and the strength of the form to distribute the weight. Any of the IFF would require comparable strength shoring for a given span (concrete thickness). But if the shoring is closer because the IFF is less rigid, lighter weight shoring could be used.

Don't you have to support each individual block where they meet each other? That is on two sides? See page 11 http://www.buildblock.com/builddeck/BuildDeck%20Install%20Guide.pdf

I wouldn't think so, I have used a lot of Lite-Deck and many times there is splices in the forms, as long as the steel goes through the splice. And on Lite-deck it is a simple butt splice, whereas BuildDeck locks together.

My concern about BuildDeck is have the number of longitudinal steel pieces. But that is relative too, if BuildDeck steel is twice as strong as Insul-Deck or Lite-Deck, it should still be able to be shored every 6'. Look at AmDeck, they use steel joists with shoring as far as 20' apart.

Where is the steel? I see it in the other product but not this one.

It looks like it goes between the sections, so right under the beam section, which may be good when the concrete is placed.

That looks to me like only the attachment steel and has nothing to do with the engineering. While it might be all right for using to attach drywall, I don't think I would count on it to be part of the shoring system. Obviously the Buildblock company does not either.

I think BuildDeck did the shoring the way they did because the steel is optional. The steel would have to add to the rigidity, wouldn't it?

Not enough to take a chance like that.

Well it is not a matter of taking a chance. It is finding out what the steel is and how often it needs to be supported. Then calculated the dead-load of the fresh concrete to determine what each support needs to support. I have supported many IFF systems with ReechCraft bracing, it works great.

Hello.

We constantly design and supervise the construction of concrete roofs and floors with Insulated Decking (like Quad-Deck and Insul Deck) or just regular removable formwork (with added EPS insulation on the surfaces).

Most of the times we use a standard 1.2m (4') shoring spacing (as shown in photos submitted by Quad-Lock). Calculations of max. vertical displacement on Insulated Decking due to the weight of fresh reinforced concrete, with 10cm (4") thick slab and 13cm (5") deep beams is only 0.08cm (1/32")!!! If one would consider the additional load of 4 men (4x220lbs) within 1sqm (10sqf) then the max. vertical displacement does not exceed the 0.15cm (1/16").

But again, your engineer is supposed to specify this not your material supplier not your constructor not your next door friend not your favorable forum. There are serious safety issues in regard to pouring concrete on roofs and suspended floors, and accidents have happened with tragic results.

In regard to the proper rebar size and detailing, once again this is the job of your engineer. It all depends on the specified applied load, span, end supports and detailing, etc.