icf ties, or anchor bolts....old queston
Last Post 17 May 2010 07:39 PM by arkie6. 8 Replies.
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mike9000User is Offline
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19 Apr 2010 12:54 PM

Hi all, I'm building a 20x14 living room addition in MD.  A contractor for 30 years, so not inexperienced, but 1st ICF and wary.

Anchor bolts, 4" cut outs to get concrete to the ledger.  Cheap.  Labor intensive.  Pain in the...to insure bolts remain true after pour.  Must plan
every bolt location to avoid conflict with joist hanger.  More time and effor to drill ledger for install.  (Could install ledger and bolts at same time, but this will interfere with wood bracing already in place...lots more time and trouble.)


ICF ties.  Not so cheap.  Never used before.   Seems like these too must be carefully planned out to avoid conflict with coming joist hangers, but don't know exactly how they work.  Quick and easy ledger install after pour.

Do the ICF anchors need to be planned to avoid joist hangers, or is there enough play in their design not to worry about that??

Thanks for your help.

MIke K

dmaceldUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2010 02:43 PM
I used the Simpson ICFVL hangers when I built my house. I did my own design and GC and worked on the house full time. I did not find that planning the hanger spacing to be much of an issue at all, but maybe that was because my joist layout was pretty straight forward. With joist @ 16" o.c. I put the first ledger hanger at 8" from the end and spaced them @ 48" o.c. That way every one landed between joists. I may have had to do some adjustment in the shower and bathroom areas where I had a few joists spaced @ 12" o.c., I don't recall. I don't think I would try to put a joist hanger over the top of an ICFVL. There is some latitude for horizontal movement of the ICFVL J support, but not more than a couple of inches either way. You could mark the wall with the joist locations before you put the ICFVL into the block and thus avoid conflict. You are also constrained some by having to straddle the block webs with the ICFVL.

I'm probably biased from my years spent in Quality Assurance, but I would say planning, even if it takes a lot of time and is a pain in the rear, pays off many times over when it comes time to construct. I spent a h*** of a lot time planning my house, and almost no time revising the plan during construction!

Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
mike9000User is Offline
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19 Apr 2010 03:49 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

You've answered an important question.   The ICF anchors do have to be carefully positioned, and even moreso because of the webbing.

That makes working out the standard anchor bolts just about as easy for me.   I only need six or eight anyway, and the ICF anchors have to be purchased

15 to a box.   All that's left now is labor, labor, labor.....

 

Thx

wesUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2010 04:25 PM
Mike,
After you cut your holes for the concrete to surround the anchor bolts, install the ledger with 3 or 3.5" screws driven into the ICF webs. Now drill holes for anchor bolts and install bolts with double nuts to hold in place while you pour the concrete. Fairly straight forward, not that hard to do, not that time consuming.
Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net
mike9000User is Offline
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20 Apr 2010 12:12 PM

Appreciate the insight.  I was originally planning to use the ICF anchors, so the wall is already loaded with veritical supports.  I'd have to

back each of these off to put the ledger board on at this point.    My plan is to place each bolt through a 4" dia cut out by securing a 12x12 OSB plate

over each hole.  Tedious, but I've put myself in a bit of corner by originally expecting to use the ICF brackets....

arkie6User is Offline
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20 Apr 2010 02:18 PM
Another option for anchor bolts is the 6" Anchor Tunnel available from www.wind-lock.com  Google [anchor tunnel] for more info.  I've attached a partial screen shot from the Wind-Lock online catalog.


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20 Apr 2010 04:25 PM
Posted By arkie6 on 20 Apr 2010 02:18 PM
Another option for anchor bolts is the 6" Anchor Tunnel available from www.wind-lock.com 

Looks like a pretty neat item, but I wonder about something. I think it would be difficult to drill a series of tight fitting holes along the ledger in exactly the correct location to get the ledger board over the bolts. The solution is to drill oversize holes. But considering the smooth surface of the plastic tunnels, the steady downward force on the ledger from all the weight resting on the joists, and shrinkage of wood over time thus diminishing the tightness of the washer and nut, what's the possibility of the ledger board slowly over many years creeping downward? I think the possibility would be less with concrete bearing surface against the ledger, but even then could it happen?

Just wondering.

If the block webs are 6" o.c. how do you fit the 6" diameter tunnel since the space between webs is only about 4.5"?

Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
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17 May 2010 06:50 PM

Okay, so...install the ledger board; mark and drill the ledger; remove the ledger; cut out the 4" holes; insert bolts with nut on either side; reinstall ledger board.
I like.  When I get this done, I'll report back on how it went!

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17 May 2010 07:39 PM
Posted By mike9000 on 17 May 2010 06:50 PM

Okay, so...install the ledger board; mark and drill the ledger; remove the ledger; cut out the 4" holes; insert bolts with nut on either side; reinstall ledger board.
I like.  When I get this done, I'll report back on how it went!


How is this going to work with your bracing?  Will that horizontal ledger board not interfere with your braces running vertical up the wall?  Or are you planning on bracing on the outside?

And most recommendations that I have seen are for at least 6" of vertical contact between the concrete and ledger board.  Instead of a 4" round hole, you could cut a rectangle 4" wide x 6" high with the top and bottom edges of the foam tapered slightly to encourage the concrete to flow and also provide a stronger attachment point.
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