What IS The "Truth" About Hobbs Vertical ICF?
Last Post 14 Jun 2011 09:19 PM by BrucePolycrete. 7 Replies.
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HobbsVerticalICFUser is Offline
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02 May 2010 02:38 PM

Hi, my name is Andrew Hobbs, President of Hobbs Building Systems. I developed and market the Hobbs Vertical ICF Wall System.

I am not here today to sell or self promote our system!  Greenbuildingtalk.com is a great forum to share ideas, experiences and knowledge. However, as you can see by threads like “Vertical ICF” on this site the privilege this site offers can often times be abused with self promotion at the expense of others through “anonymity”.  We have proved that a number of these malicious attacks are actually our competitors that obviously are threatened by our very existence!

I have asked our growing network of dealers and distributors to be “transparent” when participating in this type of forum and resist the temptation to become confrontational like so many do. We are a family owned business and I resent the fact that I must defend my name on the World Wide Web! What is the agenda and cost to these perpetrators for their comments?  

My name is literally on the product and, as far as; I know we are the only ICF system where this is true. I feel compelled to set the record straight with the “truth” about some of the slanderous, inflammatory and naïve statements that are floating around this forum. For those of you that are contributing to this behavior I will let the participants decide which applies to you!

Here it is:

# 1: We are being sued by our competitor.  

False! While TF Systems is similar at first glance anyone doing their homework will soon realize that our system is significantly unique to anything on the market. Our system speaks for itself if you take the time to review the information available to you on our website. The system is certainly not perfect and it’s not for everyone or every project! However, it does solve many problems that the industry has faced for +40 years! We have spent tens of thousands of dollars in due diligence to insure that we did not infringe on anyone’s intellectual property! As an inventor, I deplore anyone “stealing” someone’s ideas. The TF System appears to be a good system; however, in my humble opinion our system is the most innovative ICF available (by design) and we prove it!  

#2: Quote on another thread: “As to other vertical systems, in my location where soil & frost pressures are important, a system like Hobbs with no horizontal reinforcement (other than the top and bottom) makes engineers run away very quickly”.   

False! The Hobbs system has been physically tested by the Civil Engineering Department at Iowa State University to provide data on the “composite” strength of the entire systems comprised of the concrete, rebar and form. The testing data is available in our technical library on the website @

http://www.hobbsbuildingsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/HBS-Engineering-ISU-Flexural-Capacity-Report.pdf.

For example the graph on page 38 of the report shows that the system is actually nearly 50% stronger than just the concrete and rebar alone! We have not had a single instance where an independent engineer would not “certify” our design even in the most stringent locations in North America!

Concrete has very little tensile strength (flexural); therefore, it’s the vertical rebar that does the majority of the work under flexure from lateral loading such as backfill. Hobbs Vertical ICF is engineered on nearly every project. Our system typically is comprised of a horizontal rebar at the top and bottom beams and around openings. If, additional horizontal rebar was required by engineering there is an option for this. However, this “comment” is simply a naïve one with NO factual basis to support it!

#3: Hobbs doesn’t offer “Termite Proof” EPS!

True! We have the option to offer this additive. However, we have concerns for our customer’s sake! We haven’t tested this option and one of our suppliers recommends us not using this additive in our EPS panels. The additive is very in-expensive, however, it makes the EPS foam panels very brittle is the report that we get.

The Hobbs standard contour design inherently isolates the travel of termites on the outside panel to just a single panel section. They cannot travel horizontally because the furring assemblies cut off access. With a proper termite barrier on the top and/or bottom of the wall termites should not be able to have an easy path for travel within the system.

 

Lastly, I would like to apologize if anyone has not received the service that they expect or deserve. We do care about our customers! Please either personal message me on this site or contact me via the website so we can address any individual concerns.

Sincerely,

Andrew Hobbs

GnuBeeBuilderUser is Offline
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02 May 2010 03:12 PM
Well Mr Hobbs, the first thing that I can say about generalizations is that they are just that, and the same value should be assigned. For decades I have eaten peanut butter almost daily, for others one smell can kill them. What generalization can you draw about peanut butter from that difference?

You reference my comment about lack of horizontal rebar and being tested at Iowa State Univ. At the end of the day, it is the local engineer who puts their stamp on the plans. I have asked about your system and, from a very seasoned engineering firm, got the cold shoulder. At the end of the day, we hire engineers for their skills and that seal. If they won't give it, it just doesn't matter if 99% of all other areas of N America will stamp it ... these ones advised otherwise for our local conditions.

I too was investigating your system and prepared to give your system a try but, as the other person has said, I too had communication issues with the distributor. Red flags come in various forms and carry different weights for different products. If this was a paint product, it is easy to fix. When it is a major structural component, that is a huge red flag to me, and I bow to the credentials and education of a local engineer. In my case, it was a foundation. If it was above grade, I don't think those walls even require an engineers stamp so I would be more apt to give it a try.

GnuBeeBuilderUser is Offline
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02 May 2010 03:20 PM
Also Mr Hobbs, perhaps the acid test for any product is what the Consumer affairs people advise of everyone. Before you hire a contractor, get some references and CHECK THEM OUT. If their history is good, even if there are some personality glitches, there is some solid evidence to track. CARFAX publishes vehicle histories, Consumer magazines publish comparisons of microwaves, and it goes on and on ...

Might some published info with names and addresses, and dates built dispell some of the technical issues? VHS beat out Beta in the market, not because they were a better product, and Mr Gates did it to Mac the same way.

Empirical proof will trump generalities every time, wouldn't you agree?
Joseph FarellaUser is Offline
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03 May 2010 12:03 AM
Posted By GnuBeeBuilder on 02 May 2010 03:12 PM
Well Mr Hobbs, the first thing that I can say about generalizations is that they are just that, and the same value should be assigned. For decades I have eaten peanut butter almost daily, for others one smell can kill them. What generalization can you draw about peanut butter from that difference?

You reference my comment about lack of horizontal rebar and being tested at Iowa State Univ. At the end of the day, it is the local engineer who puts their stamp on the plans. I have asked about your system and, from a very seasoned engineering firm, got the cold shoulder. At the end of the day, we hire engineers for their skills and that seal. If they won't give it, it just doesn't matter if 99% of all other areas of N America will stamp it ... these ones advised otherwise for our local conditions.

I too was investigating your system and prepared to give your system a try but, as the other person has said, I too had communication issues with the distributor. Red flags come in various forms and carry different weights for different products. If this was a paint product, it is easy to fix. When it is a major structural component, that is a huge red flag to me, and I bow to the credentials and education of a local engineer. In my case, it was a foundation. If it was above grade, I don't think those walls even require an engineers stamp so I would be more apt to give it a try.



"In the United States, registration or licensure of Professional Engineers is performed by the individual states. Each registration or license is valid only in the state in which it is granted."
"The title "Engineer" is legally protected in many states, meaning that it is unlawful to use it to offer engineering services to the public unless permission is specifically granted by that state, through a Professional Engineering license."

You can confirm this with the " very seasoned enginnering firm" who gave you the cold shoulder.

Hobbs provides a stamped shop drawing on a project by project basis from an engineer who is registered and licienced in the specific state that the project is being constructed in ,as required by the local building officials .

To date, there have been no states or provinces, that Hobbs VICF has not been able to provide a stamped  engineers drawing  for  its customers.

I am sure, that it is not your intention to give misinformation to the readers of this forum.
With that in mind, could you tell us which state you are referring to.?

I do not understand what you are trying to say with your peanut butter analogy.
But I am sure that everyone appreciates knowing that you include it in your diet "almost daily."
Hard workin manUser is Offline
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06 May 2010 08:09 PM
To whom it may concern, I thought I would let anyone whose interested know that any issues I may have had with Hobbs have been dealt with and resolved in a calm, courteous and professional manner. I have personally spoke with Mr. Farella himself and I believe we are on the same wave length now. I would like to say that I'm quite impressed with his attitude and have a new found respect for him. I apologize for any inconvenience I may have caused due to several possible misunderstandings on my part from several different people. Thanks and have good day!
John5User is Offline
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14 Jun 2011 06:37 PM
I will say!  I have seen all types of every kind of ICF..If you do not know by now that Hobb's is the BEST on the market, then you have not done your homework right yet. It is SUPERIOR to any other kind of ICF. I do not need to say anymore....BUT ! If you disagree thats okay. I hope you do not over spend to much for what every you buy. Thank You . John
dmaceldUser is Offline
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14 Jun 2011 06:50 PM
Posted By John5 on 14 Jun 2011 06:37 PM
If you do not know by now that Hobb's is the BEST on the market, then you have not done your homework right yet. It is SUPERIOR to any other kind of ICF.
But that's EXACTLY what Bruce Polycrete says about the Polycrete block. Hmmmmmm, since it's impossible for two different items to be BEST, most likely neither one is. I guess folks will just have to keep on looking!!!!

I know what it is now!! Hobbs is the best vertical, and Polycrete is the best block! Yeah, right!

Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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14 Jun 2011 09:19 PM
Thank you, dmaceld. I can die happy now.
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