What block???
Last Post 17 Feb 2011 09:20 PM by peterswet. 26 Replies.
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Henry RiesenbergUser is Offline
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13 Feb 2011 06:26 PM
From people that have used many makes of blocks. which block would you use on you own home? Fox or Reward ? with similar support from company and a diy project??
marrs516User is Offline
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13 Feb 2011 09:37 PM

I dont know about Reward, but Nudura is better than Fox blocks.  Nudura is very DIY friendly

smartwallUser is Offline
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14 Feb 2011 07:55 PM
That's a wacky statement. In most cases one block will work as well as others. It mostly depends on cost of the block and for a DIY, it comes down to support.
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14 Feb 2011 10:00 PM
Posted By smartwall on 14 Feb 2011 07:55 PM
That's a wacky statement. In most cases one block will work as well as others. It mostly depends on cost of the block and for a DIY, it comes down to support.


I would agree with one exception. If the house is a complicated design i.e. lots of angles or odd angles, I would prefer a product like Intergraspec where I have the option of cutting one panel at a time as opposed to cutting the whole "block"
smartwallUser is Offline
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15 Feb 2011 08:11 AM
i would agree that a knock down block works better on job with lots of jogs and angles. I have a slight problem with Integraspec and that is the web really restricts the flow of concrete and for a DIY it would be exteremely difficult to insure proper consolidation. Green Block G- block would work or Formtech form.
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15 Feb 2011 08:17 AM
I'll second that and add that with the mitering formula they have in place, which they made easally available, two blocks make the inner and outer pannel short and long tail without any waste!
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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15 Feb 2011 09:22 AM
If you want a knock-down block, you should take a look at Polycrete Flex 850. 4mm steel wire cross ties, 1' x 8', so it's a big block. Type 3 expanded polystyrene panels are denser and stronger than most, so blow outs are virtually eliminated. Blocks connect by means of a solid T-shaped polymer fixture attached to the top edge that slips into a groove on adjoining panels.

Here's a link http://www.polycrete.com/en/flex850
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15 Feb 2011 01:20 PM
Nudura and others provide both knockdown or regular. However, I can't agree that a more cut up job warrants using a knockdown. All of the installers I know prefer pre-made corners, Ts, 45's etc, radius etc. over building via mitering etc. It takes more skill to cut from scratch so I would think the pre-made approach would be better for a DIY person. Regards.
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15 Feb 2011 01:50 PM
One big feature of a KD block is the ability to offset the vertical joints by reversing the ouside corner form . This locks the oposing panels so that the forms are interlocked to the next panel and not just the opposing panel, gives you a straighter wall and stronger as well.
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15 Feb 2011 02:21 PM
smartwall, I looked up formteck and greenblock and they are not reversible forms. KD or not, I believe being reversible would be helpful to a DIY and make matters easier. Nudura, Reward, Integraspec, and Fox are each reversible.
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15 Feb 2011 09:39 PM
Hi Henry

As it happens much too often the guys that post most of the time on here are trying to sell their own block and do not actually answer questions that are asked. You wanted to know about building with Fox or Reward. They are both a well made form which will work regardless of the design. Any amount of corners and radius walls can be done with both. I have to give a little more to Reward due to the six inch on center ties and the very strong corners. You can order any quantity you need and they have great customer service. They are both reversable which is a must. If you can get either one you should do fine if you know what you are doing. No one should try to pour concrete walls with no experience or help. Good Luck.
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15 Feb 2011 09:54 PM
Quaker, Have to generally agree with you. Except 6" O.C. only clutters the form and slows down the sheetrocker. 8" O.C. is better.
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15 Feb 2011 10:16 PM

Texas

I think the 6" vs 8" could go either way. It may be true that typical drywallers "sheetrockers" might have a learning curve with the 6" o.c. but with 6" there will usually be a web closer at odd joints and openings. I like your locking webs. I do wonder why a block that fold flat needs a knock down block?

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15 Feb 2011 10:57 PM
As pre earlier posts a knock down provides ease of cutting. If I was using just 45's or 90's I would certainly use prebuilt corners however may upscale (or stupid depending on your point of view) houses use all the degrees on the protractor. Also I have just complete 300 feet of grade beam that IntegraSpec's loose panel and splitable web made possible. It also included brick ledge at half block height. If the P.Eng. requires stirrups tie top and bottom, I'm not sure it can be done in a solid block. Of course with the ingenuity of the installers out there they is probably ways of doing it that I have not thought of.
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15 Feb 2011 11:00 PM
Posted By smartwall on 15 Feb 2011 01:50 PM
One big feature of a KD block is the ability to offset the vertical joints by reversing the ouside corner form . This locks the oposing panels so that the forms are interlocked to the next panel and not just the opposing panel, gives you a straighter wall and stronger as well.


You can also offset the horizontal joints or have the web span the horizontal joint by starting with a half web.
eric monkmanUser is Offline
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16 Feb 2011 12:17 AM

Buy block from a manufacturer who insists that you be trained by them and/or are willing
 
to provide onsite technical support at all stages.

Installer certification and training are more important than how much $$ the block costs.

A manufacturer "who cares" is where you want to spend your dollars.
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16 Feb 2011 09:01 AM
I'm a Buildblock distributor, I don't sell either Greenblock or Formtech, I do look at all the different blocks that I can and request samples because there are new products being brought to the market all the time. If you sit on what you use and don't look at other products then you get left behind. Texas the Formtech form is reversible but the G-block is not you are right.
Eric I agree, but if someone wants to buy block from me and does not accept the help that I offer, so be it.
renangleUser is Offline
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16 Feb 2011 09:03 AM
Hi Henry,

I agree a bit with Quaker on here and at times when you ask a question like "who has the best block" it can bring us an interesting debate. I think if your two options are Fox and Reward, both will work fine for you and I feel that you should make the decision in part with the one "who cares" or offers the best customer support.

If you are going to do the project yourself, I have always felt that proper bracing is a very important factor in reduing potential problems with the wall (making sure its straight/plumb/etc). If there is a manufacture, distributer, or builder/sub in your area that has proper ICF bracing (or bracing for rent), then I would opt to work with them. You can use wood bracing and make it yourself, but in my opionion the bracing designed for ICF walls does work better in the end.

As for block, there are the usual suspects that advertise on here or that are mentioned often. For the most part they are all good especially if you put them together carefully. Most of us can pick on another block when we want, but it gets a little old.

That's my $0.02 Best of luck - Ren
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16 Feb 2011 09:21 AM
Posted By quaker on 15 Feb 2011 10:16 PM

Texas

I think the 6" vs 8" could go either way. It may be true that typical drywallers "sheetrockers" might have a learning curve with the 6" o.c. but with 6" there will usually be a web closer at odd joints and openings. I like your locking webs. I do wonder why a block that fold flat needs a knock down block?


Quaker,  Re: "I do wonder why a block that folds needs a knock down block?  That's a good question.    Here are a few reasons some perhaps more important than others. 
 
Nudura uses panels to get above their standard 12" concrete core -- e.g. 14", 16", 18", and up.  

The 8' panel is needed for the outside panel of factory radius

Tight or small radius for the outside panel -- you can make the outside panel like spagetti to easily follow any radius by running a skill saw (1/4" depth vertical cuts every few inches) on the inside of the 8' form -- the inside of the radius pieces are pre-cut at the factory. 

Floor to floor connections on hotels or with Insul-deck etc. where you basically have only one panel - this reduces waste.  

A one sided ICF wall where the other side is concrete only.  There are ways to do radius window arches that can be simplified with panels although I prefer other methods. 

Perhaps most importantly, (and unfortunately) sometimes the rebar is so complex and involved that it is easier to put the rebar in before the second panel.   To me this is another reason I prefer 8" O.C. -- sometimes engineers want to cross more bars than physically possible in the wall.

Regards.

thagreenUser is Offline
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16 Feb 2011 10:12 AM
Smartwall, you are definetly not doing the ICF industry a favor with that mind set.
Crooked walls and voids are present because of mis-installation and mis-information.
Whether it be training a contractor or a home owner, letting them know strongly from the start that
concrete does't forgive and forget should be a must. So your saying that when you go to inspect jobs and
rebar placement isn't proper or joints not properly secured you'll go ahead and pour with
chances of blowouts and structural integrity being compomised ?? If so I'd get out of the industry as
a favor to others whom believe in proper and safe housing, and not dammage the ICF futhermore.
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