Technical question about rebar in footings & horizontal in walls as well as keyway function
Last Post 16 Apr 2012 08:56 AM by HamptonsICF. 3 Replies.
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16 Apr 2012 03:54 AM
I understand there are some extreme situations which can alter the engineering requirements of construction but I am on the lower Canadian prairies so no weird soil conditions, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods or those kinds of severe issues.

I have seen a number of engineered variations of wall:footing attachments in the same location.  Aside from the "CYA" version of liability, I am interested in your comments as to how much rebar is required in a footing for a regular 8 foot ICF foundation.  There are 2 general "soil" types in my area.  One is pure sand with a water table within 5 feet of the surface and the other is swelling clay with no water table involved.

Example 1. I have seen NO rebar at all in the footing with only pins and 2x2 keyway connecting to wall.

Example 2. I just did a 1700 sf footing built on sand which called for 3 15m (5/8") horizontal rebars with with 3/8" cross ties 24" oc and 15m vertical dowels on alternating sides along keyway. 

In example 1, I queried the lack of rebar from the engineer as well as a well known (grey haired ) commercial engineer I know and both told me that rebar is NOT really required in a footing ... (or perhaps just around this location).  

Other than "It's a good idea to put rebar in footings" .... there is a massive difference in these two scenarios so I am curious as to some technical comments.

Also, I have been told the keyway is just for moisture control so is that the case and not really required as long as there are dowels into wall ... or does it double to protect from soil pressure deflecting the walls inward?  With a concrete basement floor, just how could a wall push inward at the footing without crumpling the concrete floor?

I just recently had a call from a vertical ICF system that usually has no horizontal rebar except top and bottom which brings up another variable, namely horizontal rebar.

Again engineering varies from no horizontal rebar (except top & bottom) to one bar per row of ICF blocks.  Specs are always 5/8" vertical rebar 16 oc but some specs say 3/8" horizontal and others ask for 5/8". 

I am told that the wall strength is actually in the vertical rebar and the horizontal rebar is mostly to keep the wall from separating and does not contribute much to the actual strength.

As usual, I enjoy the variability of comments so I look forward to your comments.

(I hope the "Tipping Point" article in ICF Magazine is finally coming true.)


Chris JohnsonUser is Offline
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16 Apr 2012 06:28 AM
You are correct in your wall rebar, horizontal bar is to help prevent cracking and vertical is for strength

in Ontario rebar is not required in the footing if it fits into part 9 of the code, however, once we do ICF most municipalities require and engineer to review, once the engineer is involved we get bar and dowels in our footings

The keyway is old school, I still see it on drawings and ask the engineers it's purpose if we have dowels and that alone is usually enough for them to say forget about it...it's the typical cut and paste they are doing these days.
Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49
smartwallUser is Offline
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16 Apr 2012 08:47 AM
Down here in upstate NY most building inspectors expect to see 2 rebar in the footing as far as the walls are concerned I follow the prescriptive method, 2 horizontal up to 8' and three 9' and above. I follow the PM for vertical rebar using mostly 1/2" unless a engineer states otherwise. Even though the PM is suppose to be the guide for building in NY with icf's most BI's have never heard of it. I pour all my jobs using a mono pour method .thus the key way is a moot point.
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16 Apr 2012 08:56 AM
I agree with smartwall I also mostly use the mono pour, it is funny though to watch BI's stand there all confused then ask you what you are doing
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