I had a few questions regarding InsulDeck (aka QuadDeck):

1 - I assume that InsulDeck and QuadDeck are one of the same with distinct differences, correct?

2 - Does anyone know what the reduced R-Value is due to the circular "utility chases" that are in the forms?

3 - On the west side of the home there is a 2nd floor patio/projection that the top slab will be exposed to the exterior and then it will transition into the interior portion of the home. How much thermal transfer can one expect from the exterior slab to the interior portion of that home?



THANKS!

1 - I assume that InsulDeck and QuadDeck are one of the same with distinct differences, correct?

I've only used Insuldeck, but they look functionally similar to me.

2 - Does anyone know what the reduced R-Value is due to the circular "utility chases" that are in the forms?

Insuldeck publishes a table of R-values for the different combinations of panel and deck pour. I suspect Quad Deck does the same.

How much thermal transfer can one expect from the exterior slab to the interior portion of that home?

Quite a bit. Concrete is a very good conductor of heat, especially over large areas. We make substantial effort to place thermal breaks under doors and the like where concrete would otherwise be continuous from outside to in.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 29 Apr 2012 07:48 AM

How much thermal transfer can one expect from the exterior slab to the interior portion of that home?

Quite a bit. Concrete is a very good conductor of heat, especially over large areas. We make substantial effort to place thermal breaks under doors and the like where concrete would otherwise be continuous from outside to in.

How would one thermally break the concrete without causing a structural break also?

The 2nd story concrete will be insulated from the bottom and sides but of course the top will be exposed to the sun.

How would one thermally break the concrete without causing a structural break also?

I'm not aware of any way except to work up two separate structural systems at the break. That's why I mentioned earlier that I didn't think the Insuldeck solution was the best for your deck thing.

but of course the top will be exposed to the sun.

And the cold air.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 29 Apr 2012 06:03 PM

How would one thermally break the concrete without causing a structural break also?

I'm not aware of any way except to work up two separate structural systems at the break. That's why I mentioned earlier that I didn't think the Insuldeck solution was the best for your deck thing.

but of course the top will be exposed to the sun.

And the cold air.

My current home has a front and rear concrete patio that then transitions to the homes interior and forms the interior slab. They poured this as one unit and there is no thermal break on either patio. I can feel a slight difference on the floor in one spot but the other spot is covered with carpet so I can't tell.

Most homes have the front & rear concrete patios poured along with the homes slab on grade, with no thermal break in the pour.

How much of an issue is this really going to be for that one spot?

The only other option would be to do a wood portion but that is mixing 2 different trades (concrete and wood) and then structurally it becomes a nightmare as the wood flooring cannot support concrete walls.

In my climate area the winter sun will warm the slab during the day. It's the summer sun that is another story but my wife likes warm floors anyway... 

Most homes have the front & rear concrete patios poured along with the homes slab on grade, with no thermal break in the pour.

As a single slab? While I am sure that happens, I have never seen it. To say that "most" homes have that done would be a bit of a stretch unless you are talking about large numbers of cheap tract homes.

How much of an issue is this really going to be for that one spot?

Just calculate the heat loss for a section of concrete representing the portion directly under the outside wall. But we could also wait and image it with a thermal camera to find out. If you are going to have a radiant slab remember to use slab temperature versus outside temp for the differential as opposed to just room temp.

that is mixing 2 different trades (concrete and wood)

Surprisingly enough, some ICF contractors are pretty fine carpenters, too. Mine was.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 30 Apr 2012 02:05 AM

Most homes have the front & rear concrete patios poured along with the homes slab on grade, with no thermal break in the pour.

As a single slab? While I am sure that happens, I have never seen it. To say that "most" homes have that done would be a bit of a stretch unless you are talking about large numbers of cheap tract homes.

I've never seen them thermally break the patios during a pour. They might do two separate pours and create a cold joint but I have never seen them insulate it and thermally break it. On custom homes, yes, if the owner requests it but for the millions of tract homes I don't believe they do that. At least not in Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado.

They do it as one pour with a step down as this is the most cost effective way and the best way to secure the patio to the homes slab. To do a pour, let it cure, then break it thermally with insulation and call the crew back and the concrete truck back to do another pour is costlier for them. They do a step down from the homes finished grade to outdoor patio or garage. They DO NOT thermally break it and they DO NOT do two separate pours. It would increase costs significantly.

Well, it's pretty clear that you should do your home just like everyone else. I'm sure all those builders know what they are doing.

LBear, I understand that the forms are exactly the same with Quad Lock being the manufacturer.

Another option is LiteDeck:

www.litedeck.com

I have been trying to get a hold of an InsulDeck rep to send me a sample piece and info so I can forward it to my architect but that has proven difficult. Maybe because I am residential the reps don't put as much emphasis as they would with commercial?

Lite deck is a little easier to work with, especially if you have framing experience. You can also store them easier. Insuldeck is still a great product.

Ideally I need the floor to be no more than 12" or 13" thick and for it to span that 16 to 24 feet. Is this feasible with InsulDeck?

What is the ballpark going rate per sq.ft for InsulDeck, installed?

lbear
if you send me a private email i will forward all tech info, samples and manuals you need.
[email protected]
[email protected]

fyi
insuldeck and quaddeck are identical.
insuldeck owns the technology, equipment and patents for the product.
it is made on insuldeck owned equipment in several eps molder plants, who also mold quadlock and other eps products.

The longest span I will have is 24'.

How does one deal with HVAC vents on the 2nd floor when you are using a concrete floor?

Are you asking how you get penetrations through to floors above the Insuldeck?

Your Insuldeck will be a radiant slab, won't it?

Posted By ICFHybrid on 02 May 2012 01:06 AM
Are you asking how you get penetrations through to floors above the Insuldeck?

Your Insuldeck will be a radiant slab, won't it?

Yes, can one run duct work through the slab or is it not feasible/recommended?

Don't know if I will go with a radiant slab or not.

Shouldn't be a problem to create a penetration in the floor for a duct. Just blockout the area for the duct prior to the concrete pour, then cut the foam out after the concrete is cured. Don't put the duct where the flooring system steel ribs or structural concrete ribs are located.

We used pieces of 4", 6" and 8" PVC pipe - it makes a nice clean penetration. If you expect to have cold concrete at the penetration, I wouldn't do this in consideration of the close contact between the concrete and PVC and the possibility for localized condensation. All my penetrations were in radiant tubed Insuldeck - warm concrete. Of course, running down the service tubes in the Insuldeck forms is super simple, it's just running services crosswise that takes a little thought.

Like Arkie6 said, don't violate structural ribs, but going through the overlay web is usually good for a quick OK from the structural engineer.

If you do use chunks of foam to punch out later, make sure the outside edges are well rounded so they don't create corner "stress-points" in the concrete pour.

What you absolutely want to do with any significant amount of ICF and Insuldeck is to create an open vertical chase for services to pass, preferably in a centrally located area. I would recommend one end of an existing closet as a natural location. Two feet square or larger wouldn't hurt.